And all three are likely correct designations from Starfleet's point of view.
Original 12 Constitution class ships
- Thread starter garak1
- Start date
- Status
And all three are likely correct designations from Starfleet's point of view.
It could possibly work like this:
Starship Class - Heavy Cruiser Class - Constitution-class
I tend to think "Starship Class" and "Starship" are just a romanticized view of certain types of ships that somehow became official for a bit of time in the 23rd century. Starship and Constitution class are likely referring to the same kind of ships.
Yeah. Which is basically what I said earlier upthread. At some point and for a time the term "Starship" became romanticized and applicable to only a specific type of vessel. Later it fell back into more conventional and general use.
I've long had an idea, fueled by something I read in Diane Carey's novel Final Frontier, that Robert April was already an established Starfleet commander when he was assigned to head up the Starship Program--the development of the Constitution-class cruisers. The successful program resulted in April being rewarded with command of one of the first ships built and his return to acrive flight duty. Additionally it was April who brought individuals such Richard Daystrom and Lawrence Marvick with their specialties into the project.
It's certainly not canon, but just an idea in the back of my mind.
This dovetails into another issue. MJ once stated the Enterprise was the first of the 17th major design for Starfleet--hence the registry 1701. But if it is a Constitution-class ship then technically wouldn't it then be at best the second ship of that class built? Perhaps the Constitution of that class only existed on paper for the sake of the project's development and no ship of that class was actually commissioned with that name?
Or MJ was rationalizing an explanation for a question he got tired of answering for the thousandth time.
Last edited:
In Final Frontier I seem to recall that they rushed the ship nearest completion out for a rescue mission. The reasoning was that with its new engines it be able to make it easily while any other ship in the fleet wouldn't, or would barely make it at best. It didn't even really have a name or numbers. It was damaged a bit in the story and by the time it finally fulfilled its mission was named "Enterprise" based on a conversation between April and his security chief, George Kirk. Note that she barely made the rescue mission because of other events in the novel, but still made it because she was just that fast. The ship returned to dock to be finished. The "first ship" commissioned was named Constitution, which had been April's choice of name, and became the lead ship with the 1700 number, while Enterprise was held up getting repaired from her first mission and was commissioned a month or so later with the 1701 number. April decided to keep Enterprise.
Or MJ was rationalizing an explanation for a question he got tired of answering for the thousandth time.
I seem to remember that the question about the registry number wasn't something MJ explained a thousand times. It was just something that he had quickly scribbled off the top of his head on a sheet of paper under the "1701". Which is about as canon worthy as canon balls made from SillyPutty.
A for the term "starship". I've previously commented on this upthread. but I feel that the term refers to a range of Starfleet ship categories and classes capable of independent and extended operations away from regular contact with bases. And with the widest possible range of mission capabilities. And they all have the best Captains and the best crews.
The included categories in TOS time would be from light cruiser to possibly dreadnought. And to expand to Explorer (including Galaxy and Sovereign classes) during TNG times.
I seem to remember that the question about the registry number wasn't something MJ explained a thousand times. It was just something that he had quickly scribbled off the top of his head on a sheet of paper under the "1701". Which is about as canon worthy as canon balls made from SillyPutty.
A for the term "starship". I've previously commented on this upthread. but I feel that the term refers to a range of Starfleet ship categories and classes capable of independent and extended operations away from regular contact with bases. And with the widest possible range of mission capabilities. And they all have the best Captains and the best crews.
The included categories in TOS time would be from light cruiser to possibly dreadnought. And to expand to Explorer (including Galaxy and Sovereign classes) during TNG times.
From this site http://www.usmm.org/faq.html it appears the Merchant Marines weren't quite US Military. If Merrick and the Beagle were based on the Merchant Marines of WWII era, then maybe that helps explain the distinction between "space ship" and "starship." Starships were Starfleet vessels (Star(fleet) Ships). They were the official military arm of the Federation. The Beagle was a "spaceship." Spaceship captains did not have to go through the rigorous training or qualifications that starship captains did. Merrick couldn't cut it as a starship captain, but he qualified to captain the Beagle in the Merchant service. Spaceships are obviously viewed as inferior to starships.
You can still make that work with a real Constitution NCC-1700. I have always imagined the NCC-1700 U.S.S. Constitution being the prototype ship, and remained as an experimental testbed for some time (sort of the NX- type of the 23rd Century), and NCC-1701 U.S.S. Enterprise was the first of the class to be built and sent out on missions.
But, as with all this stuff, your mileage may vary.
--Alex
Yes, this. Simple and easy to understand.
I like this a lot. I'm thinking I'll probably incorporate this into my personal headcanon now.
To be fair, my Silly Putty cannon ball fan fiction is REALLY good.
Good idea. Sort of like how the prototype space shuttle USS Enterprise never actually went out into space.
Yes, this. Simple and easy to understand.
I like this a lot. I'm thinking I'll probably incorporate this into my personal headcanon now.
To be fair, my Silly Putty cannon ball fan fiction is REALLY good.
Good idea. Sort of like how the prototype space shuttle USS Enterprise never actually went out into space.
Kind of like it. Except that the Space Shuttle Enterprise was actually OV-101--which argues against a prototype having a "00" number.
In the same way that I am a time traveler. I seem to be traveling through time--previously in the past, currently in the present, and I move inexorably to the future.I had an argument with someone once, who called the space shuttle a starship. "Well it goes up into the stars, doesn't it?"
Interestingly the shuttle program can also provide for the registry numbers before NCC-1700. Shuttle Challenger was OV-099 and was built from one of the test articles. Columbia was OV-102.
Enterprise was suppose to go in to space, but the government felt it was cheaper to rebuild test articles and later use spare parts rather than rebuild Enterprise for flight.
Pathfinder is OV-098.
Enterprise was suppose to go in to space, but the government felt it was cheaper to rebuild test articles and later use spare parts rather than rebuild Enterprise for flight.
Pathfinder is OV-098.
Last edited:
I can buy that explanation.
Where was it written that Starfleet would use the exact same numbering system as NASA?
- OV-095 - a mockup in the Shuttle Avionics Laborstory (SAIL) at Johnson Space Center
- STA-096 - Environmental Control and Life Support System Structural Test Article
- STA-097 - Vibro Acoustic (Mid Fuselage) Structural Test Article
- MPTA-098 - the Main Propulsion Test Article (see below)
- OV-098 - Pathfinder mockup (honorary number)
- OV-099 - Space Shuttle Challenger orbiter, originally STA-099
- OV-101 - Space Shuttle Enterprise orbiter
- OV-102 - Space Shuttle Columbia orbiter
- OV-103 - Space Shuttle Discovery orbiter
- OV-104 - Space Shuttle Atlantis orbiter
- OV-105 - Space Shuttle Endeavour orbiter
- OV-106 - an administrative name given to the set of structural components manufactured to replace those used in the construction of Endeavour; however, the contract for these was cancelled shortly afterwards, and they were never completed.
Our "00" being prototype I think comes somewhat from USS Excelsior being NX-2000 instead of NCC-2001 (Which I gather was going to be the number of the next USS Enterprise rather than NCC-1701-A).
If Constitution was suppose to be the second ship, but came out first, because Enterprise was damaged in a "secret" mission prior to commissioning, but Enterprise was officially listed as 1701, maybe instead of going 1699, because of the old idea of the 17th cruiser class, and instead of getting 1702, Constitution gets 1700 as the first commissioned ship.
For whatever reason these ships are not numbered on ordering but on commissioning, and can be subject to number changes, meaning it may not be a construction number, but something else based more on aviation than naval tradition.
If Constitution was suppose to be the second ship, but came out first, because Enterprise was damaged in a "secret" mission prior to commissioning, but Enterprise was officially listed as 1701, maybe instead of going 1699, because of the old idea of the 17th cruiser class, and instead of getting 1702, Constitution gets 1700 as the first commissioned ship.
For whatever reason these ships are not numbered on ordering but on commissioning, and can be subject to number changes, meaning it may not be a construction number, but something else based more on aviation than naval tradition.
Well, since I was the one who made that suggestion in the first place, I still don't why NASA not using "00"s on their ships has any bearing on what Starfleet does. They're two different organizations. It stands to reason that they might not do everything the same. I was drawing a comparison on the NCC-1700 not seeing any service in space, not the registry numbers.
If the registry number is aviation based, that it much have a meaning in the general sense in the Federation and any other species that also buts registry numbers on their ships. It could just be to designate a starship from a ship from Earth or Vulcan, or a Starfleet ship from a civilian ship. And outside of that the numbers have little meaning.
Though I seem to recall that at least in the United States, the numbers for aircraft registry is sequential, though not binding. What if a ships with a lower registry number like Constellation had been in Starfleet service earlier and had NCC numbers, while Enterprise and some of the others had been UESPA (Earth) vessels and incorporated into the Federation Starfleet later and thus given later numbers? Enterprise could still be the older ship, but just not handed over to the Federation until later. This would still have had to have been done before Pike was in command over Talos IV (because of visuals). Or if not that, than at least before Kirk was in command.
Though I seem to recall that at least in the United States, the numbers for aircraft registry is sequential, though not binding. What if a ships with a lower registry number like Constellation had been in Starfleet service earlier and had NCC numbers, while Enterprise and some of the others had been UESPA (Earth) vessels and incorporated into the Federation Starfleet later and thus given later numbers? Enterprise could still be the older ship, but just not handed over to the Federation until later. This would still have had to have been done before Pike was in command over Talos IV (because of visuals). Or if not that, than at least before Kirk was in command.
- Status
Similar threads
