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Opinions on the remastered versions

MTA-P

Ensign
Newbie
This feel like this would be a very controversial topic around here, but alas, I'm not around much.

I do not love the remastered version uncritically, there are a lot of baffling decisions, but imo, it had to be done. The funny thing about sci-fi special effects is that, while they don't have to be perfect, if they're below a certain standard, it pulls you out of the narrative. I remember watching the unremastered version as a kid in the 90s and finding it hard to follow...

But still, sometimes it's a little distracting. Ideally (again, imo) they'd have used CG conservatively, creating effects that resembled what was achievable with models in the 60s.

(after all, we all know the budget was low. It seems to be as if the tech wasn't the problem, resources were.)

And in some places, they've done just that, but in other places it's obvious CG. In some places, they've retained the colourful colour pallette of the original, in other places it's all gunmetal grey and neo-futurist. Going from the sharp grey CG exteriors to the funky colourful interiors is a bit jarring.

I can make a million little arguments about how this or that should've been done differently. But ultimately, I do think it's an improvement. I feel like going back to the original would be like when the BFI found an original Star Wars workprint without all George Lucas' modifications, and the consensus was that it wasn't nostalgic, just not very impressive.

Speaking of Star Wars, maybe there's something to be said for continuously updating the effects. Maybe that's treating it like a living, dynamic, unfinished thing, not meddling with perfection.
 
Each advance in filmmaking introduces its own look.

I could see Earthforce ships in Babylon 5 given a new super detailed look—but only to make it rusty.

Minbari ships look best with early, slick CGI.
X-wings? Not so much.

“The Brutalist” is a recent motion picture that uses different video formats to help tell a story.

I think a Covid documentary should use film formats the first part…70 mm… then 35…then 16. A daguerreotype to show New York’s empty streets. VHS for bags with human remains.

Post-Covid New York is all digital in my mind—motion smoothed and surreal works here.
 
We really need a pinned Eternal Remastered Debate thread.

I wished they'd recreated the original effects exactly as were, like Star Trek Continues. The new shots do not fit the tone of TOS. And the Klingon ship in particular looks like it escaped from a PS2 game.
 
I could see Earthforce ships in Babylon 5 given a new super detailed look—but only to make it rusty.

Minbari ships look best with early, slick CGI.
X-wings? Not so much.
I think I know what you mean. A clean mechanical spaceship in the vacuum of space would be the easiest thing to render with 90s CG tech. The limitation would've been on less clean, more lived-in vessels with rust and wear and tear. So when we're talking about spaceships, that's what separates early CG from more modern CG.

But the reason it's so simple to render a spaceship with primitive CG is the same reason model effects still look good; clean lines and mechanical objects on a black background are just easy to do. And that's why it's frustrating to me that they overshot, went with cutting edge CG, when simpler CG would've retained the old look.
 
We really need a pinned Eternal Remastered Debate thread.

I wished they'd recreated the original effects exactly as were, like Star Trek Continues. The new shots do not fit the tone of TOS. And the Klingon ship in particular looks like it escaped from a PS2 game.
thought we had a long-running "unneccesary reboot/remake/remaster of the week" thread

i didn't like tos-r because a lot of the shots they recreated (or occassionally made themselves) weren't done in a way that fits the shooting style of the show and era. or however you want to put it.
 
This feel like this would be a very controversial topic around here, but alas, I'm not around much.

50/50 but that happens half the time! :D

I do not love the remastered version uncritically, there are a lot of baffling decisions, but imo, it had to be done. The funny thing about sci-fi special effects is that, while they don't have to be perfect, if they're below a certain standard, it pulls you out of the narrative. I remember watching the unremastered version as a kid in the 90s and finding it hard to follow...

But still, sometimes it's a little distracting. Ideally (again, imo) they'd have used CG conservatively, creating effects that resembled what was achievable with models in the 60s.

(after all, we all know the budget was low. It seems to be as if the tech wasn't the problem, resources were.)

Keep in mind that color TV was very new and, as such, very expensive no matter what. Now add in special effects that took multiple reels of film overlaid...

TOS had a budget of $190K~$200K per episode. So $5 million for one season could be pretty spendy. From what little I could find, a TV show made in the 1950s had $90K per hour-long block. Especially when most 1960s' tv dramas had a per-episode budget of $150k, due to the newness of color film and more elaborate sets. So in no way was TOS cheap, due to all the factors considered. "Land of the Giants" had an even higher per-episode budget of $250K each, apparently. And needed it since giant props were not cheap or reusable in other shows (something else to consider, prop reuse/repurposing).

To compare, Batman's hour-long (2-parter) stories also had cost $200k each. Keep in mind that its main/standing sets' construction also had cost a lot of unprecedented money, hence the per-episode count being lower.

The technology and equipment were more or less there (film cameras were comparatively immobile compared to decades later, which must also be considered), but episode cost to create new effects and sets made it impracticable for television. Episodes would have to be thought out in as much advance as possible to allocate funds for both sets and effects, cutting back on other stories to compensate. The result would be the Enterprise firing on an invisible ship or, at the very least, one ship being seen at any given time for firing sequences. And viewscreen shots of being fired at. What they did pencil out to do was pretty amazing.

And in some places, they've done just that, but in other places it's obvious CG. In some places, they've retained the colourful colour pallette of the original, in other places it's all gunmetal grey and neo-futurist. Going from the sharp grey CG exteriors to the funky colourful interiors is a bit jarring.

I don't recall too many TOS-R interiors being palette-changed, keeping to the 1960s original florid-yet-competently-done nature.

The less said of the desaturated teal/orange generic stuff the better, it's so uninspiring but lots of movies do it (probably to blend in needed CGI elements easier, I can't think of any other reason apart from color psychology, yet people claim today's shows are "more natural", so whatever float's one's boat.)

I'm surprised that your post didn't mention exterior f/x shots as much as I was anticipating. Very refreshing. Most of TOS-R thoughtfully places in new CGI, rather than just spewing out big epic spectacle like what other franchises did, including the ill-fated attempt of "Red Dwarf" to parody the sci-fi that had done that. If the new CGI makes the scene easier to believe and buy into, feeling natural and not tacked on, I'm all for it. Only 2 TOS stories I will not watch as TOS-R (Immunity Syndrome, Tholian Web) - the originals were so extremely well done, especially with limitations of the time, and were effective. I did obviously try the new versions, which were nicely done (Esp. "Tholian"), but the originals just kept me won over. For Space Seed, Enterprise Incident, and many others, TOS-R definitely added the nuance but without tarting them up. Much respect for the animators and storyboarders and all involved. Didn't always feel right, but for some episodes the -R is my goto version.

I can make a million little arguments about how this or that should've been done differently. But ultimately, I do think it's an improvement. I feel like going back to the original would be like when the BFI found an original Star Wars workprint without all George Lucas' modifications, and the consensus was that it wasn't nostalgic, just not very impressive.

I generally read paragraph in real time, not reading ahead. I think I preemptively answered this, hehe.

Speaking of Star Wars, maybe there's something to be said for continuously updating the effects. Maybe that's treating it like a living, dynamic, unfinished thing, not meddling with perfection.

If not overdone, it can be a net positive.

Here's where the naysayers have a point: Effects will always get dated. Improving and replacing them also costs money. Being "accessible" to new audiences is a fair reason, and it gives a chance to tighten up what could not have been done before. And anyone in the industry knows how the Star Wars f/x people did so much, even with the budgets they had. ($10M was given to the 1977 original, which still looks amazing without any changes, but many of the changes do add some fair flair. Plus, the restricted use of light saber battles makes them more compelling, as well as being more graceful - which is also part of the narrative as OIbi Wan stated.*)

For story narrative, TESB does take things a step too far by all but spoiling the movie's big reveal by having Palpatine go into expositiondump mode. That aside, adding in Ian McDiarmid WAS worth the effort for stronger between-movie continuity. If only they got rid of Leia saying "I always knew" or remove the scenes from the previous films where she's tongue-wrestling Luke... and Han shot first, it's integral to his character arc and, more importantly, no attempt to have him "move out of the way" began to convince. Even if Han had The Force to ^3x the ability of Vader, they need to recreate the entire scene with CGI, and even then it's a hard sell. Human or humanoid, Han may be a good guesser at body language but being faster than the speed of a photonic weapon is something only Kal-El could do. And even then...


* "An elegant weapon for a more civilized age". Which begs new questions as, usually, when a sword is created, it's because nobody had the technology to make guns or laser blasters with. But isn't that part of the fun, to think into their universe and how it might have developed differently? No two societies, real or imaginary, are the same, of course.
 
Didn't they include the original effects and you can choose?
I'm watching on Netflix, so if they did that on the DVDs or Blu-rays, I wouldn't know.

It's a good idea, but like I say, I don't hate the remasters, and I'm not saying we should go back to the originals.
 
Live action looks crisp, CGI effects don’t look remotely good, even for 2008.

I don’t mind that they took a swing, but it was very much a swing and a miss.
 
I'm so used to very well done SFX, I thought it was high time things like the analog chronometer in TNT got updated and was glad when it happened. We know what planets look like in orbit, with weather and continents. They don't look like color saturated Big Glass Marbles.

I...(raises eyebrow) adapted
 
But still, sometimes it's a little distracting. Ideally (again, imo) they'd have used CG conservatively, creating effects that resembled what was achievable with models in the 60s.

This is precisely what the BBC are doing to the likes of Blake's 7, and some Doctor Who serials, to great effect.
 
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