Opinion: the show has improved since Berg and Harberts left

[Alan Roi]

Interesting to note that they succeeded in the 12 Monkeys TV series in spite of the Film ending with the statement that it could not be changed.

That's because the TV series was completely different conceptually on many many levels.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

After all of the above the only loose end left would be Burnham herself in the suit with a gigantic P for Paradox on her forehead, she would cease to exist unless her actions create a new reality (the PU we all know) in which case she would be able to continue existing just as we saw in the 2009 Film, confirming that the Discovery we have been watching is in fact an alternate reality just not the Kelvin one.

The whole concept of the "Prime Universe" is a messy one, given that the PU is the result of countless time incursions that we've seen in every ST series. I would see a DSC reset as how we arrive at the Prime Universe that we know, and it would tie up so many loose ends. But I'm glad the series will continue onward for now, and I'm sure they'll find some interesting ways to connect all the dots, whether by means of a reset or whatever's clever.

 

[Cyrus]

I do wonder if we see most of the last two seasons wiped away? With only Spock remembering any of it, and season three picking up with Michael Burnham as captain of Discovery without having ever committed mutiny. Never having been the ward of Sarek.

Fat chance. They are not going to do something that is wish fulfillment for the haters of the show.

 

[Gonzo]

Sigh, again with the erasing of the entire series fantasy. Seems like every year we get renewal of the "if we wish really, really hard this show will go away".

Not at all, I am fine with the show I was just responding to @BillJ who brought it up.

It would cause a hell of a lot of problems if they did go that way though.

Must admit the comments made by the show runners do make me wonder, like how the show will be aligned with ToS by the end of the season for instance, I was expecting it but not so soon.

 

[BillJ]

Fat chance. They are not going to do something that is wish fulfillment for the haters of the show.

It was something that never needed to be mentioned, yet the showrunners put it out there. So it makes the question: what do they see as not lining up with TOS and how are they going to change the show to make it line up?

 

[Cyrus]

My interpretation of the show being aligned with Canon (mentioned by Kurtzman):
Spock and Pike go back to Enterprise.
The spore drive gets decommissioned (it's already not being used much).
Section 31 goes underground.
And maybe Discovery crew getting TOS style uniforms

 

[Lord Garth]

It was something that never needed to be mentioned, yet the showrunners put it out there. So it makes the question: what do they see as not lining up with TOS and how are they going to change the show to make it line up?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm willing to wait the four weeks before circling around back to this.

 

[BillJ]

It is too bad we won't be able to have a follow-up featuring Nimoy, Quinto and Peck...

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[Longinus]

My interpretation of the show being aligned with Canon (mentioned by Kurtzman):
Spock and Pike go back to Enterprise.
The spore drive gets decommissioned (it's already not being used much).
Section 31 goes underground.
And maybe DIscovery crew getting TOS style uniforms

This would be perfectly sufficient for me.

 

[Tuskin38]

Burnham being Spock's sister doesn't mess with TOS anymore than Sybok does.

 

[Myko]

Only in a fixed-timeline model. In the usual Trek model, the arrival of the time traveler has created a new timeline that changes what happened in her own past, so she wouldn't remember any new events that happen as a result of her presence. (Spock Prime doesn't remember Kelvin Spock's version of events, only his own.)

I don't think that applies in this case. The show depicts the Red Angel (presumed for this discussion to be Michael Burnham) arriving from the future to change the past, which creates a new branch that we are now watching. The next appearance of the Red Angel from the future would be from the future of this new branch, so any knowledge imparted to Michael in the past would be known by the new version of the Red Angel.

 

[Mudd]

Fat chance. They are not going to do something that is wish fulfillment for the haters of the show.

They're going to do what CBS directs them to do, and it won't be based on the pride of the producers.

But no, "aligning with canon" does not suggest wiping out previous stories. The fourth year showrunner on Enterprise similarly made a big effort in this direction without doingsom

 

[zar]

This is why some suspect that Discovery is not Prime Timeline but that what we see in the show will restore that timeline by the end of the season, it would certainly explain the show runners difficulty with the question when they were asked, that was before the scriptwriters were shown the door.

"This is why" - no, nothing @Christopher said above your post would lead anyone to that conclusion, nor would any real-world or in-story evidence.

One might as well have "suspected" in the middle of watching TNG's Tapestry that the timeline was going to finally be "restored" because everyone knows "the next generation" means Kirk's grandson ought to be in command of the Enterprise and all this Captain Picard nonsense must have been in an alternate past.

It's not going to happen. Discovery was Prime from day one, before the Red Angel story was developed. The only "why" behind conspiracy theories involving confusion over the show's setting is wishful thinking by viewers who dislike the setting. I'm not saying you are one of them, but at least that's where these theories you're hearing are coming from.

As it stands right now the Red Angels existence indicates that their future is not what we know as being PU and it is set unless someone intervenes, which means that Discovery is not PU as we would know it until they take the actions necessary to bring the future back into line as mentioned by the show runners.

The fact that their future is not what we know means exactly that - that Discovery's future is not as it should be, hence bringing it back into line. You're conflating that with its past, i.e. the whole timeline, which doesn't follow. The past that is "not PU" is the one we have not seen, where Michael is dead as a child and the Klingon war never happened and so on.

Again, try applying these conclusions to any other Trek show. Basically, the Red Angel story seems to be a combination of the "the past you regret made you who you are today" story, like we got in Tapestry, and the "I'm you from the future unless you change" story, which Trek has also done before at least once (Alexander in Firstborn). In neither case was the entire setting of the show brought into question. The only place that happens is in fantasies on the other side of the fourth wall.

 

[XCV330]

I have secret insider information that Season 3 will involve the antics of Spock and Burnham's hitherto unmentioned hillbilly Cousin Klee T'us, from the mountainous regions of Vulcan and his attempts to "soup up" an old Daedalus Class as part of his Project Daedalus ship into a bony-fide smuggling ship. Sarek must unite his family to stop him..

Only in a fixed-timeline model. In the usual Trek model, the arrival of the time traveler has created a new timeline that changes what happened in her own past, so she wouldn't remember any new events that happen as a result of her presence. (Spock Prime doesn't remember Kelvin Spock's version of events, only his own.)

But those events don't always branch into alternate timelines, or at least they aren't shown to be, otherwise what would be the point of a temporal cold war. If there are infinite multiversal realities it looks like every faction gets elbow-room. On the other hand trek has shown that events like Narendra III (and possibly the Bozeman incident, and Year of Hell, etc) seem to cause closed loop realities that seem to either perpetuate forever or eventually be resolved cease to exist, whatever exist means in that context. They remind me of the Tangent Universe in Donnie Darko.

 

[Tuskin38]

There’s nothing saying these time travel events didn’t always happen.

 

[Gonzo]

I must admit the most surprising aspect I have found is how some forum members can't handle any kind of criticism or alternative view of the show at all and jump on anyone who is willing to consider a possibility that they don't like or not want to happen.

The show is doing fine and has improved considerably over the first season.

It can stand on its and doesn't need public defender's, let the haters hate and ignore them, @BillJ and others are not haters they are just not fans of the direction it has taken which is not a crime.

Its almost as if some members think their posts on this forum make any difference whatsoever to what actually happens with the show.

 

[BillJ]

It can stand on its and doesn't need public defender's, let the haters hate and ignore them, @BillJ and others are not haters they are just not fans of the direction it has taken which is not a crime.

I'm more of a fan of season two than season one. I just don't see any of it as part of the Prime timeline. That doesn't make the show good or bad, just how I interpret the setting they have put on screen. Just like there are some Harry Potter fans who think everything in the books/films are just Harry's imagination taking place in his head while he is locked in that broom closet.

I'm a proof is in the pudding kind-of-guy.

 

[zar]

I must admit the most surprising aspect I have found is how some forum members can't handle any kind of criticism or alternative view of the show at all and jump on anyone who is willing to consider a possibility that they don't like or not want to happen.

The show is doing fine and has improved considerably over the first season.

It can stand on its and doesn't need public defender's, let the haters hate and ignore them, @BillJ and others are not haters they are just not fans of the direction it has taken which is not a crime.

Its almost as if some members think their posts on this forum make any difference whatsoever to what actually happens with the show.

I'm sensing some projection here.

 

[Alan Roi]

I must admit the most surprising aspect I have found is how some forum members can't handle any kind of criticism or alternative view of the show at all and jump on anyone who is willing to consider a possibility that they don't like or not want to happen.

The show is doing fine and has improved considerably over the first season.

It can stand on its and doesn't need public defender's, let the haters hate and ignore them, @BillJ and others are not haters they are just not fans of the direction it has taken which is not a crime.

Its almost as if some members think their posts on this forum make any difference whatsoever to what actually happens with the show.

I for one don't enjoy having to scroll down through dozens of hater posts or post dedicated to how Disco needs to be a different show, or post by people who want to make the forums about a completely different series they think the forum should be talking about, just to find the odd worthwhile one that's actually about the ep. or Discovery itself and what the show actual is. If that's what I wanted, there are plenty of other sites on the net that those people get to shine in all their, um... glory?

 

[Gonzo]

I'm sensing some projection here.

In what way?