Opinion of The Cloud Minders?

[Joel_Kirk]

My thought: "Droxine, eat a sandwich or two."

Did they have Big Macs yet in '68/'69? Hmm...she could use a few of those.

Well, according to Wikipedia (and I only look at Wiki, if a certain article has a good reference point) the Big Mac made it's debut in '67...so....yes, Droxine could have used some Big Macs....or a couple of rib dinners...

On the other hand, Vanna was perfect...

 

[Willieck]

A predictable plot that uses an overly simplified situation with overly cliched guest stars, to make a "preachy", bombastic, "black and white" social commentary.

Do you think that that might just be a teeny weeny bit pompous? This is only Star Trek we're talking about when all's said and done.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A predictable plot that uses an overly simplified situation with overly cliched guest stars, to make a "preachy", bombastic, "black and white" social commentary.

Do you think that that might just be a teeny weeny bit pompous? This is only Star Trek we're talking about when all's said and done.

If I was in a cynical mood I'd say that pretty much defined Star Trek.

 

[ToddPence]

This episode always makes me wonder how easy it is to get into the Federation. the society is obviously unfair with its two tier system, something Kirk and Spock both notice almost imediately after arriving on Stratos. The Administrator doesn't seem particularly worried about Kirk telling the Federation about it either. And I'm left wondering how inept the assessors of membership suitablity are. ( on the other hand they seem desperate to let Gideon, a planet they have not been allowed to visit in based purely on it reputation).

Also the Federation mandates the Enterprise to make contact with planets like Eminiar and Melkot, worlds that have made it explicitly clear they do not want to be bothered by outsiders. It's like the Federation is a big bunch of Amway recruiters or something.

 

[Sky]

I never got that "out of character" argument. Everybody's out of character when falling in love... That's the definition of the damn thing.

But I think it is out of character for Spock to fall in love at first sight. Hell, it would be out of character for ME to do that, and I'm not even Vulcan and haven't had to practice mastery of my emotions.

 

[Timo]

But how could we tell it would be out of character for Spock, if this was the first time it happened? We don't have any competing examples to go by that would establish exactly how Spock falls in love... Perhaps he uses his mastery of emotions to be the ultimate charmer, with the "seven year" story as his nicely working pickup line, while his inner self is in utter turmoil and would rather stammer and blush?

Being coerced into a marriage, or being poisoned by alien plants into being happy in female company (among other things) don't really qualify as examples of "falling in love" here, I think.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

the ultimate charmer, with the "seven year" story as his nicely working pickup line

Spock: "Vulcans only mate every seven years."
Girl: "Woo. That's really long."
Spock: "Not the only thing that is."

Spock: "Vulcans only mate every seven years."
Girl: "That's real interesting, do you have any wine?"
Spock: "No, but I have this."
Girl: "What's this?"
Spock: "It's called the Vulcan "orgasm pinch"."

Spock: "Vulcans only mate every seven years."
Girl: "You win the Kalle Fee, and it will be longer than that."

 

[Gary7]

A predictable plot that uses an overly simplified situation with overly cliched guest stars, to make a "preachy", bombastic, "black and white" social commentary.

Ha! Nice summarization in just one sentence.

 

[Tribbles]

Ha ha, T'Girl!

I gotta admit, I stopped watching this episode about 3/4 of the way through because Spock and Droxine were irritating the heck out of me, and the rest of the episode didn't really engage me. I'll have to give it another try.

Timo, I understand what you're saying about love making us act out of character, but it happens so quickly that it's difficult to understand why Spock would fall in love with her in such a way that he'd lose the Vulcan discipline he struggles to maintain-- what about Droxine, in particular, could elicit such a reaction from someone schooled to be so stoic? It all seemed too extreme over a character that didn't seem that magnetic or alluring. I'm not sure whether it was the actress or the way the character was written (or both) but she came across as spoiled and childish to me, so my problem is more with Droxine being the source of Spock's OOC moments rather than the strange behavior itself.

 

[Timo]

How does Spock "lose his Vulcan discipline"? He doesn't stutter or stammer. His face doesn't go all green. He doesn't start beating up potential competing males. He doesn't start groping Droxine's exposed parts, let alone the very few unexposed ones.

Instead, he makes mental/diary notes (and his may always have been rather raunchy - this is the first time we get any insight into them), and speaks politely to Droxine.

His carefully conducted love affair with Droxine doesn't even interfere with his duties in any fashion, or bias his opinion of the Stratosian/Troglyte situation in a noticeable way.

Given the circumstances, I'd consider that a very good demonstration of Vulcan discipline!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[scotpens]

He doesn't start groping Droxine's exposed parts, let alone the very few unexposed ones.

IIRC, one of the blooper reels has a shot of Spock diddling his finger in Droxine's navel.

 

[T'Girl]

difficult to understand why Spock would fall in love with her in such a way

It might be taking things too far to say that Spock was "in love" with Droxine, he was exhibiting attraction towards her. I think a part of Spock's interest in Droxine came from a fascination with Stratos itself that Spock had developed prior to arriving there. Spock being who he is, as the Enterprise sped towards Ardana, would have done some research on the place. Beyond statistics on the planet itself, most of the "publicly available" materials might have concentrated on Stratos, it's anti-gravity construction, it's obsession with art and it's supposed intellectual and genteel society. Spock in reality might have been truly disappointed that initially he wasn't going to have an opportunity to visit there.

It would be like studying Paris and then never getting out of the airport.

Going back to Spock obvious attraction to Droxine, what attribute did she possess to counter her negatives? From Spock's point of view, she was urbane, cultured, educated, reserved, soft-spoken. Some have pointed out that she comes off as cool, almost cold in bearing (which I didn't see), but Spock with his Vulcan up-bring would find this a plus. She definitely possessed a gentle manner.

 

[StarryEyed]

A so-so episode. Vanna was definitely the interesting character for me and the cloud-city concept was definitely cool. It's an alien of the week episode though and yet another planet with a magic substance that isn't found anywhere else - one of the worse cliches in Star Trek IMO.

The Federation did seem to have far lower standards for membership in TOS than in the 24th-century era but I can live with that. It was only about 100 years old at that point and still struggling with its identity. It had grown huge by the 24th and could afford higher standards.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

A so-so episode. Vanna was definitely the interesting character for me and the cloud-city concept was definitely cool.

...The most interesting....and the hottest...

Yes, I agree.

 

[cgervasi]

Also, the man Plasus spoke to might have been the Head of the Sentinel Guard and knew that Plasus was "kidding."

He could have been serious and intentionally not put the order in writing. The guard would know that if Kirk were killed while being taken into custody Plasus would back up the security forces in the matter, even if he wouldn't admit publicly he wanted Kirk dead.

 

[cgervasi]

A so-so episode. Vanna was definitely the interesting character for me and the cloud-city concept was definitely cool.

...The most interesting....and the hottest...

Yes, I agree.

If Droxine had lived with Vanna has a child, when Vanna was a servant, I don't understand how she could be so dispassionate about torturing Vanna. The idea was probably supposed to be that Vanna was just vacuous, but it almost seemed like she got an S&M thrill out of it.

 

[cgervasi]

Kirk and Spock's reaction to the cloud city really resonated with me. It seems impossible, but I often get that reaction when I travel somewhere very different. I felt like this was a 23rd century version of seeing something like a high-speed train, tall skyscrapers, etc; things that would have seemed impossible hundreds of years ago and would still seem amazing to someone like me who doesn't get out of Wisconsin all that often.

I also liked Spock's unusual attraction to Droxine. I didn't think it was a good idea, but I could really believe this exposed a foible of an otherwise intelligent person who went to the hotel lobby and came across a resident of an exotic city he was visiting. I like this idea better than the thought that Spock is a paragon.

 

[Timo]

It's fun to see our heroes as tourists for a change, when normally they approach people and planets in a more businesslike manner. Apparently, Stratos was quite an attraction - Kirk, too, had visited it before, without paying any attention to the planet below. The complete opposite of how he'd do it if it were part of his job: he didn't observe, he apparently just gaped. This time, he got to see past the sights, and that's always quite a revelation.

Droxine just staring as Vanna is tortured... Well, apparently the Stratosians in had no inhibitions about that sort of treatment, in terms of policy. This need not have been a new experience to Droxine, then, and as a consequence there need not have been emotional inhibitions. Perhaps Vanna, age 6½, got zapped every time she dropped a glass or failed to dust atop the drawer, and her friend was well used to that?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Roberta Lincoln]

I always thought Droxine's earrings must have really hurt her ears -- they look incredibly heavy!

Nice costumes, though -- not easy to recreate and believe me, I have tried (not for a human but for Barbies)!

 

[Shatnertage]

Spock's voiceover was a little weird. I can see why they didn't do that more often.

Other than that, a pretty typical episode, for better and for worse.