BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!
Oh, I'm so sorry, you just lost your chance for the trip to Hawaii.
Operational Crew of 1701
- Thread starter Albertese
- Start date
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!
Oh, I'm so sorry, you just lost your chance for the trip to Hawaii.
...Why should he trust anything this Arnold guy sez, tho?
The odds of the Ambassador being the Ambassador were so-and-so until "Yesterday's Enterprise" aired. And transwarp being a flop is still a noncanon concept, and any future episode or movie could prove otherwise. Arnold's or Paramount's guesses were basically as good as mine or yours, until they weren't (that is, until it turned out that using them in an aired episode would not inconvenience the relevant stories).
Timo Saloniemi
The odds of the Ambassador being the Ambassador were so-and-so until "Yesterday's Enterprise" aired. And transwarp being a flop is still a noncanon concept, and any future episode or movie could prove otherwise. Arnold's or Paramount's guesses were basically as good as mine or yours, until they weren't (that is, until it turned out that using them in an aired episode would not inconvenience the relevant stories).
Timo Saloniemi
...?
I don't get it.
On the other hand, thank God I have no interest in Hawai'i!
--Alex
Of course, Richard Arnold isn't someone I'd be all that inclined to treat as an ultimate authority, either. He was basically "Igor" to the late-career Roddenberry's "Dr. Frankenstein."
Roddenberry's hatred of the idea of Transwarp was SOLELY based upon the idea that it was invented during the time that Roddenberry was "personae non-grata" on the Star Trek lot. He did his level best to invalidate EVERYTHING that anyone but he had ever come up with, and to take credit for everything that he could take away from anyone else.
What's really fascinating to me is that Roddenberry had already decided to "recalibrate the warp scale" so that "Warp 10 = infinity" (which is one of the dumbest, and most problematic, things ever done in the history of the franchise), because he thought that this would "simplify things."
Now, this recalibration makes ZERO sense if you assume that it's the exact same form of propulsion as the TOS ship (which we know traveled, at several times, at speeds well in excess of WF10). But it COULD have made sense if it were some new, altered form of warp drive which used a different warp scale.
In other words, the FASA guys were trying, to the best of their ability, to accomodate Roddenberry's late-in-life rantings (and that's not really an insult... remember, he suffered from a debilitating disease which affected his mind, leaving him with only periodic periods of clarity. It's sad fact of life, but it's not an insult.)
So, I find it a bit... inconsistent... to attack FASA for trying to make a consistent way of making Roddenberry's "WF10 = infinity" redefinition fit in with prior Trek's TOTALLY DIFFERENT warp drive definition. And I applaud them for ignoring Roddenberry's (or Roddenberry's "Igor's") claims that "Transwarp was a fiasco" just to attempt to denigrate Harve Bennett and the rest of those who made Star Trek a success again with TWOK and TSFS.
And the FASA Ambassador design, as stated earlier, PREDATES the Probert design (or at least any public awareness of the Probert design) and the Sternbach design. It wasn't a BAD design at all... in some ways, I actually like it better than what we got on-screen.
So let's be fair, shall we?
And the earlier FASA work... the stuff which followed on after TWOK, in particular... was VERY GOOD stuff. I have pretty much the entire collection, in fact, and really enjoyed it.
I know it's a little off topic (well completely), but I'm a little ashamed to admit that I'm unfamiliar with FASA's Ambassador... Can I get an image her or a link to one?
Warp 10 = infinity is dumb.
Especially since the scale is semi-logarithmic, yet somehow Warp 9.999999 still isn't fast enough to get you from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant in any reasonable amount of time. The scale makes no sense. Especially if you consider the fact that it wasn't really a logarithmic scale, and is hand-waved above warp 9.
Especially since the scale is semi-logarithmic, yet somehow Warp 9.999999 still isn't fast enough to get you from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant in any reasonable amount of time. The scale makes no sense. Especially if you consider the fact that it wasn't really a logarithmic scale, and is hand-waved above warp 9.
Two words. Cetacean Ops.
Mentioned in both Yesterday's Enterprise and Perfect Mate, supposedly the Enterprise Dee was equipped to include aquatic crewmembers. Who can't live in a "dry" section of the ship. Who require a working environment that would prove difficult for most Humanoids.
Dolphins (alien dolphins?) would have a problem interacting with the Humanoid crew in social situations.
Non-humanoids might bring something unique, a particular ability to the ship. Large areas of class M planets are covered in water, first contact, diplomatic missions to other aquatic lifeform would be better carried out by similar Starfleet personnel.
Aquatic-Xindi, Octopus, creature from the black lagoon, orca?
For a Tholian, a Ambassador Kosh style encounter suit might be a requirement. How many Federation planets have a fluoride atmosphere? Just the one? Maybe the reason relatively few of the Federation's 150 plus members are seen on the various Enterprises' is because the vast majority of the Federation's membership are fluoride breathers.
Starfleet ships with primary oxygen-nitrogen atmospheres might be the rare few.
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Of course, Cetecean Ops is only ever name-dropped onscreen, with no specific elaboration on its function, or even indication that the dolphins are members of the crew. 'Canon' being what it is, Sternbach has been and forever will be wrong, as far as some are concerned.
For a Tholian, a Ambassador Kosh style encounter suit might be a requirement. How many Federation planets have a fluoride atmosphere? Just the one? Maybe the reason relatively few of the Federation's 150 plus members are seen on the various Enterprises is because the vast majority of the Federation's membership are fluoride breathers.
Starfleet ships with primary oxygen-nitrogen atmospheres might be the rare few.
From the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual (1975):
Doesn’t sound as if there’d be much value in humans and Tholians serving aboard the same ship, even if it were physically possible.
And that's canon. First off, the INTENTION was always that the Tholians were crystaline and at very high temperatures (see the "heat waves" on TOS). But this was formally established on "Enterprise," during the fourth season, even going so far as to show an exploding Tholian.For a Tholian, a Ambassador Kosh style encounter suit might be a requirement. How many Federation planets have a fluoride atmosphere? Just the one? Maybe the reason relatively few of the Federation's 150 plus members are seen on the various Enterprises is because the vast majority of the Federation's membership are fluoride breathers.
Starfleet ships with primary oxygen-nitrogen atmospheres might be the rare few.
From the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual (1975):
Doesn’t sound as if there’d be much value in humans and Tholians serving aboard the same ship, even if it were physically possible.
Star Trek really does need more alien... and I mean ALIEN, not "Californian with rubber noses"... life.
As far as I'm concerned, the human-crewed starships generally went to Earth-like worlds, and skipped over the non-Earth-like worlds, which were in turn visited by starships with crews more acclimated to those worlds (and the potential inhabitants of those worlds).
Who's to say that there isn't a whole fleet of Medusan-crewed ships out there, visiting Medusan-like cultures, and having Medusan-Trek adventures?
There are! But we can't watch those episodes!
First contact protocols for Medusan ships would be hilarious. Would you consent to wear a blindfold to meet people from a strange vessel that warped into orbit unannounced? It make a cool episode of Futurama. Zap Branigan might refuse to adjust protocols just because a few thousand insane individuals started interstellar war coincidentally a few weeks after the Medusan visits.
TNG TM aside, I was under the impression that the nature of the cetacean ops area was more of a lab/zoo function than a crew habitat function. Even then, the dolphins do not seem to be a permanent feature. At some point (I forget the episode) Wesley says he and some other kids are "going to see the dolphins" in a way which could suggest they are not usual fixtures aboard. (Like, 'we're going to see the new puppies' tone of voice.) This seems even more likly in light of that episode where that cloaked planet abducts the Enterprise kids ("When the Bough Breaks" if memory serves...?) and the boy who didn't want to learn calculus carves a wooden dolphin and then has to explain that dolphins were in the oceans on the planet where he used to live; note: not dolphins were on the crew of the ship he was just taken from.
If dolphins were meant to be a regular part of the Enterprise crew, then it'd me more laid out like Seaquest DSV which had Ensign Darwin tubes all over the place and an open tank so Roy Schneider can say hi from time to time.
Star Trek IV aside, I don't think there are actual whales serving as officers in Starfleet. And certainly not on the TOS ship, which is what we're talking about in this thread.
--Alex
Dolphins might well be a permanent feature of the ship - whereas the kids would come and go!
Much like the Medusans, the dolphins would seem to serve a function while suffering from limitations, especially in mingling and mobility. We don't know whether they'd count as "crew"; they might be more akin to the dogs of a Marine security team. And conversely, a Medusan might consider the crew a collection of lower animals who serve a function in making his starship move, but don't contribute much to the mission otherwise.
Trying to provide "equality" for such functionaries vis-á-vis the humanoid personnel might well be a futile and downright insulting endeavor, quite regardless of the technological and operational challenges. It's already bad enough that T'Pol is forced to eat at the Captain's table - why force Flipper to watch ugly and largely deaf-mute humanoids all day long?
Timo Saloniemi
Much like the Medusans, the dolphins would seem to serve a function while suffering from limitations, especially in mingling and mobility. We don't know whether they'd count as "crew"; they might be more akin to the dogs of a Marine security team. And conversely, a Medusan might consider the crew a collection of lower animals who serve a function in making his starship move, but don't contribute much to the mission otherwise.
Trying to provide "equality" for such functionaries vis-á-vis the humanoid personnel might well be a futile and downright insulting endeavor, quite regardless of the technological and operational challenges. It's already bad enough that T'Pol is forced to eat at the Captain's table - why force Flipper to watch ugly and largely deaf-mute humanoids all day long?
Timo Saloniemi
Zap Branigan heard that Medusian were so sexy, that just looking at one would drive a man sexually insane ...
... but it would be worth it.
Sure. This website uses a different class name to avoid confusion with the later "canon" design, although personally I like to think of the FASA version being a short-lived "Ambassador I" design given its small build number (15) and that several were lost or destroyed. It's a fairly powerful ship with 10 torpedo tubes, and the FASA TNG officer's manual oddly cites it as being the "newest heavy cruiser in Starfleet" despite using movie-era tech. One could always argue of course that we don't know when (or if) such ships would have stopped being built in favor of the TNG aesthetic. FASA also created the Paine class frigate based on the Thomas Paine being mentioned in "Conspiracy," although the USS Renegade was never mentioned on any of FASA's ship registries.
There is a ship on the Ambassador list that was clearly intended to be the Horatio, but it's actually named the Horatio Ballantrye and has a separate registry, so it's easy to avoid issues with the canonical Horatio. Personally, I'd like to think also that Starfleet ultimately hushed up the loss of the Alaska-class Enterprise C on its first mission, due to the famous name, and instead quickly substituted one of the later Ambassadors in its stead.
Sure you can - just wear really-really-really dark sunglasses.
(Seriously: Would an image of a Medusan be as dangerous as seeing one in real life? New topic??)
Sure you can - just wear really-really-really dark sunglasses.
(Seriously: Would an image of a Medusan be as dangerous as seeing one in real life? New topic??)
I know I wouldn't want to see a picture of say, Rosie Odonnel any more then I'd want to meet her in person... So I'd say yes, it probably is as dangerous.
