The same thing can be said for the non-Janeway fans--on multiple threads going back fifteen years.
Online Petition Bring Back Kathryn Janeway!
- Thread starter Kathryn J.
- Start date
The same thing can be said for the non-Janeway fans--on multiple threads going back fifteen years.
I've never heard a non-Janeway fan say things like-
1) It's not a Voyager book if Janeway isn't in it.
2) Yes, we know Janeway made mistakes. But we've been persecuted so much we'll never admit it, even if you're willing to compromise and we know that being unwilling to compromise ourselves just makes us look bad.
I just don't see the point in either of those beliefs...
To me, the Janeway fans would gain a lot more...sympathy, if they showed a bit more flexibility and willingness to compromise a little bit.
1) It's not a Voyager book if Janeway isn't in it.
2) Yes, we know Janeway made mistakes. But we've been persecuted so much we'll never admit it, even if you're willing to compromise and we know that being unwilling to compromise ourselves just makes us look bad.
I just don't see the point in either of those beliefs...
To me, the Janeway fans would gain a lot more...sympathy, if they showed a bit more flexibility and willingness to compromise a little bit.
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As much as I adored Jadzia Dax, there's no good reason at all to "bring her back" somehow. Ezri got more development in one year of screentime, and her time in the books has been fantastic - especially now that she's Captain Ezri Dax.
Complain about Pocket being "sexist" all you want, but it's much more telling that in the biggest Pocket event of the last 10 years, the most energetic, proactive and heroic starship captains were Ezri Dax and Erika Hernandez, not Jean-Luc Picard and Will Riker. And it was ultimately Hernandez who saved the day while Picard and Riker just struggled to deal with what was happening. Not to mention the way Kira Nerys has come into her own since the DS9 Relaunch.
Tell me just what kind of compromise is there, our character is dead in Trek books and we want to read stories about her alive, I don't see any ground in between. The only compromise you all want is for us to go away and leave all of Trek to you and that isn't right nor is it going to happen.
You want to know what is inflexible, that is the unreasonable belief that Janeway fans that can't read books because their favorite character is dead, being expected to accept that in the name of flexibility. That is flat laughable. You guys have everything, books you like to read and a character you mostly ridicule gone and then you call the people that want to read stories about their character having a life inflexible.
What is inflexible is people that have it all and don't want to share. We got maybe a book a year if even that and suddenly it was so important that our characters be used to back up other series books, that their deaths be used to motivate other series characters that we didn't count at all.
I'm glad some people love to read about Ezri Dax, but why is it inflexible for Janeway fans to want the same thing. You have only been asked to share and you can't even see that. So yes if we are inflexible, it's because any other way we get pushed over and around and never heard.
We want Janeway back, we want Voyager based stories about Voyager characters and I for one am pretty tired ot those that HAVE calling those that DON'T HAVE inflexible just because we want parity. No one has asked any of you to give up anything, we have only asked to be included, we have asked you all to simply share. Now just who is inflexible?
Brit
The thread title pretty much gives away the fact that a bunch of Janeway supporters are going to be in here lamenting the fact that their favorite character from their favorite series is dead and not likely coming back.
Why are you so surprised to see resistance to coming in here and saying, 'You should be open minded to her being dead'? That seems silly to me.
I think you're missing the point of Janeway supporters anyway.
I've never asked for 'sympathy'. For one, I'd never get it. For two, sympathy does not keep people from calling for Janeway's head when they get the chance.
However, I have asked that my favorite captain be given some respect like that of the other Trek captains (Archer excluded - he has it worse than Janeway, I think). But, I'm not asking for that here either.
What I am saying is that I want to read about Voyager's crew, all of them... together. On top of that, I consider Janeway the driving force of that crew. Without the whole, it's not a Voyager story to me anymore.
That's a fairly reasonable statement.
I'm not running around, screaming at the top of my (metaphorical) lungs that Janeway is the BEST. CAPTAIN. EVAR. I'm not saying she should be captaining the flagship of the Federation. I'm not saying everyone should love and adore her.
I'm saying those of use who do got shafted.
We feel that way. We're allowed.
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(I feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I want to say something in here...)
I see stuff like that and I wonder: is that what people really want? Get Janeway and company back, no matter what? Even if it means going over the same ground? Maybe I can't see that mindset because I'm a writer, and, to me, anything is possible. Voyager can't be Voyager unless it has exactly the same ingredients it had in the series, in exactly the same quantities, with nothing missing? From my viewpoint, that's hard to conceive of.
Given that you don't know what most of our daytime or nighttime jobs are, I'm not sure you should assume the rest of us aren't writers simply because we would like to see something specific. But, that's just me.
Aside from that, if there's a Shatnerverse, there can be a Mulgrewverse. (Though Mulgrew would never be bothered to go out and have a ghost writer come up with books like Shatner does.) But, my point is, if one doesn't want to bring her back in the main storyline of the PB? Fine. Give me some alternatives.
Everyone has a notion of what they consider the part of the Trek Universe that should be reserved as strictly "Voyager", just as they do for the other shows. You're not going to come in here convince anyone otherwise. That's part of the joy and frustration of fandom.
Given that you don't know what most of our daytime or nighttime jobs are, I'm not sure you should assume the rest of us aren't writers simply because we would like to see something specific. But, that's just me.
And you shouldn't assume I was making that assumption. I was talking about myself and no one else.
Ugh...I'm done with this...when the Janeway fans are less willing to sound like victims and more willing to have an open-minded discussion about this, they know how to find me.
This is yet another stunning example of how the radical part of a movement for change can drown out everyone else and undermine the movement's overall credibility. When someone offers you an olive branch, try making less of an effort to rip their arm off.
I won't sign the petition because I haven't heard any objective arguments in favor of doing so. I hoped this thread might actually be an even-keeled discussion of the potential merits and flaws of what happened to Janeway and whether it would be to Trek's detriment to ressurect her...but I guess not.
I don't intend to monitor this thread any further (in other words, if you respond here I won't know that you did so), as I don't feel people are allowing any room for constructive dissent. I'll come back if that's what anyone wants...but I somehow doubt it.
Really, really disappointing.
This is yet another stunning example of how the radical part of a movement for change can drown out everyone else and undermine the movement's overall credibility. When someone offers you an olive branch, try making less of an effort to rip their arm off.
I won't sign the petition because I haven't heard any objective arguments in favor of doing so. I hoped this thread might actually be an even-keeled discussion of the potential merits and flaws of what happened to Janeway and whether it would be to Trek's detriment to ressurect her...but I guess not.
I don't intend to monitor this thread any further (in other words, if you respond here I won't know that you did so), as I don't feel people are allowing any room for constructive dissent. I'll come back if that's what anyone wants...but I somehow doubt it.
Really, really disappointing.
Just stop trying to cloak this desire (Janeway back and in command of Voyager by any means necessary) as some sort of feminist ideal when it's apparent by a closer look at TrekLit now (and in comparison with the television shows especially) that the authors and editors clearly do value and respect their female characters.
You realize Shatner does a lot more of the heavy lifting than simply "hav[ing] a ghost writer come up with books," yes?
Yes.
In this I totally agree!
DonIago wrote:
I would like to know what you mean with "open-minded discussion". Does that mean that those who want Janeway back and those who want all the main crewmembers back should compromise with their opinion in this matter. You know, it's not that simple.
If you watch a seres like Voyager for a couple of years and take a liking for the characters, then it's not that easy to see them get destroyed, replaced by characters who don't mean anything to you and then be ready to "move on" and accept the situation just as if nothing has changed. Especially not when the character destruction and character assasination is totally unnecessary and only destructive to the ongoing story.
As for me, I will never compromise when it comes to characters like Janeway and Kes. Soory, but I see no reason for it.
Based on his post, I suspect you will not get an answer to your questions, Lynx.
That's good, because the initial post sounded pretty dismissive of Shatner's contribution.
aka a "spin-off" - which is what I consider books like "Captain's Daughter" to be.
Ironically, with Janeway gone the current Voyager series is a spin-off of itself - aka a pale imitation.
aka a "spin-off" - which is what I consider books like "Captain's Daughter" to be.
Ironically, with Janeway gone the current Voyager series is a spin-off of itself - aka a pale imitation.
Yes, exactly, a spin-off. That's a great way to put it. Thank you.
^
Let me know when somebody starts a "Dump Janeway's Ashes in the Compost" petition.
