One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers inside*

[kkozoriz1]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

I can picture Q doing just that. (sitting with a bowl of popcorn and watching everyone die). I can't see Q helping them out without something big in return. (and it wouldn't be a good thing). And I don't think anyone would want his help especially since it is his fault that the borg even know who they are.

since Christopher already corrected me on this matter, i'll pass along the info. the borg were already sniffing around the romulan border when q introduced picard to our dear collective. so it was only a matter of time, they would have knocked on the federations doorstep anyway.

What Q did was introduce Picard to the Borg and let him know about the treat they posed. it was probably a good thing since it gave the Federation advance warning that they were close and on their way. That doesn't mean that Q wouldn't be interested in seeing the outcome, especially where Picard was concerned.

I wonder what Q thinks of Janeway's death at their hands. He took a pretty fair interest in her too.

I can't really imagine Q wasn't even the least bit interested in either of these events.

 

[The Rock]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

I can picture Q doing just that. (sitting with a bowl of popcorn and watching everyone die). I can't see Q helping them out without something big in return. (and it wouldn't be a good thing). And I don't think anyone would want his help especially since it is his fault that the borg even know who they are.

since Christopher already corrected me on this matter, i'll pass along the info. the borg were already sniffing around the romulan border when q introduced picard to our dear collective. so it was only a matter of time, they would have knocked on the federations doorstep anyway.

Which doesn't change anything about Q's motivation though.

What I also find particularly cringeworthy is the fact that humans created the Borg. So not only are virtually all aliens in the Star Trek galaxy seeded by one humanoid race, the most unusual race of them all basically comes from Earth, too. The mystery of the Borg totally destroyed, in my opinion.

And that the alternate future scenes in VOY: Endgame didn't seem like anything of Destiny happened. So why did Voyager's return cause the events of Destiny?

Well what I got from the Destiny trilogy is that the humans didn't create the Borg per se. It was really the Caeliar that created them. The two human MACO's just happened to be the first beings that had the "honor" of being assimilated.

 

[chelly]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

I thought the first two borg were starfleet and they ate the maco.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

And that the alternate future scenes in VOY: Endgame didn't seem like anything of Destiny happened. So why did Voyager's return cause the events of Destiny?

That was, as you say, an alternate future where Voyager did not return in seven years and it was erased by Admiral Janeway's meddling. Destiny clearly didn't happen in that universe because the Borg didn't get pissed at having their unimatrix blown to kingdom come. The Borg get mad and break things.

 

[Christopher]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

^Exactly. When Admiral Janeway came back in time, the technology and intelligence she provided allowed her and Captain Janeway to destroy the Borg's transwarp hub and their Unimatrix 01 complex (something that never happened in the original timeline Admiral Janeway came from). That prompted the Borg to recognize that the Federation had become a major threat to the Collective, rather than the minor irritant they'd been before, and so the Collective took action to eliminate the threat.

 

[BillJ]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

^Exactly. When Admiral Janeway came back in time, the technology and intelligence she provided allowed her and Captain Janeway to destroy the Borg's transwarp hub and their Unimatrix 01 complex (something that never happened in the original timeline Admiral Janeway came from). That prompted the Borg to recognize that the Federation had become a major threat to the Collective, rather than the minor irritant they'd been before, and so the Collective took action to eliminate the threat.

That's why you don't screw with the timeline!

 

[chelly]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

I bet the breakroom at Temporal Investigations has adartboard with a picture of Janeway and a few others.

 

[JD]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

They probably have an entire floor devoted to Kirk.

 

[ares93]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

They probably have an entire floor devoted to Kirk.

floor? a wing.

 

[Christopher]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

I bet the breakroom at Temporal Investigations has adartboard with a picture of Janeway and a few others.

Heh-heh-heh...

 

[neogothboy74]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

I wonder what Q thinks of Janeway's death at their hands. He took a pretty fair interest in her too.

But Janeway didn't just die. She's now hanging out with the Q.

 

[SicOne]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

^Exactly. When Admiral Janeway came back in time, the technology and intelligence she provided allowed her and Captain Janeway to destroy the Borg's transwarp hub and their Unimatrix 01 complex (something that never happened in the original timeline Admiral Janeway came from). That prompted the Borg to recognize that the Federation had become a major threat to the Collective, rather than the minor irritant they'd been before, and so the Collective took action to eliminate the threat.

OK, I know I'm gonna get snarked at for this, but...why didn't the Department of Temporal Investigations prevent Admiral Janeway from going back in time to work with Captain Janeway to destroy the Unimatrix 01 complex?

 

[Sci]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

^Exactly. When Admiral Janeway came back in time, the technology and intelligence she provided allowed her and Captain Janeway to destroy the Borg's transwarp hub and their Unimatrix 01 complex (something that never happened in the original timeline Admiral Janeway came from). That prompted the Borg to recognize that the Federation had become a major threat to the Collective, rather than the minor irritant they'd been before, and so the Collective took action to eliminate the threat.

OK, I know I'm gonna get snarked at for this, but...why didn't the Department of Temporal Investigations prevent Admiral Janeway from going back in time to work with Captain Janeway to destroy the Unimatrix 01 complex?

What makes you think they were able to? I mean, you might as well ask why the FBI didn't stop 9/11.

 

[Christopher]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

OK, I know I'm gonna get snarked at for this, but...why didn't the Department of Temporal Investigations prevent Admiral Janeway from going back in time to work with Captain Janeway to destroy the Unimatrix 01 complex?

Hmm... if only someone would write a book about the DTI that could answer questions such as that one...

 

[The Rock]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

OK, I know I'm gonna get snarked at for this, but...why didn't the Department of Temporal Investigations prevent Admiral Janeway from going back in time to work with Captain Janeway to destroy the Unimatrix 01 complex?

Hmm... if only someone would write a book about the DTI that could answer questions such as that one...

Wait, why can't you write a book about this Chris? I would totally buy it!

 

[SicOne]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

OK, I know I'm gonna get snarked at for this, but...why didn't the Department of Temporal Investigations prevent Admiral Janeway from going back in time to work with Captain Janeway to destroy the Unimatrix 01 complex?

Hmm... if only someone would write a book about the DTI that could answer questions such as that one...

Yay! When is it due out?

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

^Exactly. When Admiral Janeway came back in time, the technology and intelligence she provided allowed her and Captain Janeway to destroy the Borg's transwarp hub and their Unimatrix 01 complex (something that never happened in the original timeline Admiral Janeway came from). That prompted the Borg to recognize that the Federation had become a major threat to the Collective, rather than the minor irritant they'd been before, and so the Collective took action to eliminate the threat.

So Voyager's homecoming paid with the blood of 65 BILLION people. Great work. Now that explanation in your novel why nobody did something against that must be something VERY special to convince me. The time cops (Braxton & Co) went back in time for every single sneeze some time traveler has done in the past, but they don't do anything about a Borg invasion that was never supposed to happen? The future we have seen in Endgame wasn't even an alternate future, it was actually the proper, naturally developed future. The new timeline created by Admiral Janeway is the alternate one. What can be so brilliant about the Voyager's return that 65 billion dead people in the 24th century (which count up to many, many billions more in the 26th, 29th, 32nd century... all those people who were never born because of that) are acceptable?

 

[kkozoriz1]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

^Exactly. When Admiral Janeway came back in time, the technology and intelligence she provided allowed her and Captain Janeway to destroy the Borg's transwarp hub and their Unimatrix 01 complex (something that never happened in the original timeline Admiral Janeway came from). That prompted the Borg to recognize that the Federation had become a major threat to the Collective, rather than the minor irritant they'd been before, and so the Collective took action to eliminate the threat.

So the Borg attack was instigated by a human being? It was a counter attack to an attack on them? Janeway is probably one of the greatest mass murderers in history, at least indirectly.

 

[Christopher]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

So the Borg attack was instigated by a human being? It was a counter attack to an attack on them? Janeway is probably one of the greatest mass murderers in history, at least indirectly.

No. That's like saying that the Allies in WWI were responsible for the Holocaust because Hitler used their mistreatment of Germany after WWI as his excuse for stirring up hatred and fervor for war. Or saying that the United States was responsible for 9/11 because Bin Laden used US policies in the Mideast as his excuse for bombing the towers.

People who do bad things always try to blame them on other people. Abusive spouses or parents or governments always tell their victims that they brought the abuse on themselves. But it's a lie. You are always the one responsible for your own actions, your own choices. If you lash out at someone who wronged you and say they're responsible because they wronged you, that's a lie, because you could've chosen to react differently.

The Borg have been a clear and present threat to the galaxy for thousands of years. The Janeways acted in defense against that threat. The Borg chose to react with a wholesale attack. Their choice, their responsibility.

 

[SicOne]

Re: One thing that irked me about the Destiny trilogy. *spoilers insid

Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of is that by the time the DTI was formed (or at least had the ability to prevent/alter/investigate such things through temporal manipulation...), Admiral Janeway going back and forcing the Borg's hand (as we seem to perceive it at this point in the thread) in the "Destiny" events was a part of the DTI's history and as such not subject to change or alteration.

Indeed, we may discover in future novels that the events of "Destiny" were ultimately necessary to prevent other and much worse latter disasters in the Trek universe.

For example, the events of "Destiny" led to the Typhon Pact, and we may discover that events in the Typhon Pact miniseries may conclude with closer relations with the Cardassians, Romulans, Klingons, et al, that prevent or ameliorate a future conflict with a powerful foe that otherwise would have wiped out the entire Federation or Alpha and Beta Quadrants, rendering the deaths of 65 billion the lesser evil.

The clumsy analogy I would compare this to would be, if by going back in time and preventing the events of 9/11 you might save the lives of those who died during and since in the attack and the war that followed, but inadvertently cause that timeline to later have a similar event occur but involving more aircraft/more targets/a higher death count/genocide in the Middle East, etc, what would you do?