One thing I especially hate in "In Theory" ...

[Laughing Dragon]

Not sure how you got that from my post.

I don't think sexism is funny. I think Troi is a poor counselor. I think pot shots at characters are par for the course in my experience across several fandoms, and twenty plus years of being maligned for my favorite character.

Regardless, there's no standard for "true fan" in my experience.

I did not really mean to accuse you. Sometimes it's true though in some situations. I am not talking about canon rants, but this show is about serious subject matter. And Data hade a slavery allegory too. It seems to make a mockery of it. And I did not mean to imply other characters, and those fans don't get mocked. It's not going to make everyone feel better when it happens to them. Or maybe that's me.

 

[fireproof78]

I did not really mean to accuse you. Sometimes it's true though in some situations. I am not talking about canon rants, but this show is about serious subject matter. And Data hade a slavery allegory too. It seems to make a mockery of it. And I did not mean to imply other characters, and those fans don't get mocked. It's not going to make everyone feel better when happens to them. Or maybe that's me.

Data had a slave allegory?

TNG could be serious but In Theory did not do it well. It missed the boat substantially because it ignored some of TNG's strongest element of showing Data as a being who had already grown, not a comedic foil for a half baked romance trope romp.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

amongst all the other.. things, there's something very Pulaskian about vocally and repeatedly insisting that Data is nothing more than an unfeeling machine, nothing more than a soda machine that talks. and even Pulaski mellowed out a lot on it, even if she never fully accepted him as "alive", instead of becoming more entrenched as time went on.

anyone who watched the series should be able to see that he does have emotions, even without the chip, even if Data says otherwise, they're just... different. whether the situation in the episode was handled correctly... idk. it was somehwat cringeworthy, i don't think it was going to be different the way it's set up, but i also don't think it was done with malicious intent. it probably should have been revisited, but...

(i think it was a missed opportunity not to include Pulaski in Picard, as well as do more with

Spoiler

Moriarty

)

I don't know if Data has "emotions," but he is not a bad "person" and I am putting that in air quotes because of certain people. Because he already said it himself that he "gets used to people" in some android like explanation.

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Data had a slave allegory?

TNG could be serious but In Theory did not do it well. It missed the boat substantially because it ignored some of TNG's strongest element of showing Data as a being who had already grown, not a comedic foil for a half baked romance trope romp.

Yes, they did. I will provide you with a video. Even if you don't take me seriously.

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[fireproof78]

Yes, they did. I will provide you with a video.

With due honesty and respect, I will not watch it. No random video clicky for me. It's a rule I have.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

With due honesty and respect, I will not watch it. No random video clicky for me. It's a rule I have.

Then I hate this forum even more. But I won't be chased out. I tried to be nice.

You don't click on videos??? No respect here too. And from my way too now. I am cutting you off right here. And putting you on my ignore list BLEEP! But take me seriously here and that's ok. Have a nice day.

 

[fireproof78]

Then I hate this forum even more. I tried to be nice.

You don't click on videos??? No respect here too. And from my way too now. I am cutting you off right here. And putting you on my ignore list BLEEP! Have a nice day.

Peace and long life.

 

[Skipper]

I see the conversation has gotten heated. That wasn't my intention.
Let me explain better what I meant to avoid misunderstandings.
Data, in the context of the episode, is incapable of romantic feelings. We can agree that it doesn't respect the character's history, but in the plot it is an established fact. Data himself repeats it. The writer of the episode also confirms it.
This is an axiom of the episode and nothing in the episode contradicts it.
Jenna knows it, and she still wants a satisfying romantic relationship with Data. Which, given the premise of the episode, is impossible. She knows it, Data knows it, Data's friends know it.

Now, with all due respect, it is not healthy to expect to get something that is impossible to have. It is not healthy to squeeze an orange and expect coconut water to come out. This is not my personal interpretation. It is repeated in the context of the episode, it is said by Moore himself who wrote the episode.

Now, Jenna wants something that does not exist. At best, it can be a bad impression. Very bad. Everyone knows it, but everyone acts like it's completely natural. They give Data advice as if it were a normal relationship, but nothing is normal about what's going on.

• A woman wants a romantic relationship with an android. It's never happened. Of course, this is Star Trek and everyone respects everything, etc., but it is by definition an exceptional event. Literally. And an exceptional event should not be handled like a normal event.
• Everyone gives Data advice as if he were romantically gifted. He isn't. It's repeated ad nauseam. It would be like advising a eunuch on the best sexual positions. It would be ridiculous and embarrassing.
• This is uncharted territory. What does Deanna do? She gives very generic advice and doesn't have a chat with Jenna. Somebody said, "But that's their business." But they are crew members and Deanna is responsible for their emotional and mental well-being. And we've seen in other episodes that Deanna can request to speak to a crew member, she doesn't always have to wait for them to come to her.

My comments are not disrespectful to Data. But in the episode he is portrayed as totally aromantic. Aromanticism exists among humans, and if a totally aromantic acquaintance of mine asked me for advice on how to start a romantic relationship (with a person they have no romantic interest in) I wouldn't give generic advice, I'd say "Are you sure about what you're doing???".

 

[Laughing Dragon]

I see the conversation has gotten heated. That wasn't my intention.
Let me explain better what I meant to avoid misunderstandings.
Data, in the context of the episode, is incapable of romantic feelings. We can agree that it doesn't respect the character's history, but in the plot it is an established fact. Data himself repeats it. The writer of the episode also confirms it.
This is an axiom of the episode and nothing in the episode contradicts it.
Jenna knows it, and she still wants a satisfying romantic relationship with Data. Which, given the premise of the episode, is impossible. She knows it, Data knows it, Data's friends know it.

Now, with all due respect, it is not healthy to expect to get something that is impossible to have. It is not healthy to squeeze an orange and expect coconut water to come out. This is not my personal interpretation. It is repeated in the context of the episode, it is said by Moore himself who wrote the episode.

Now, Jenna wants something that does not exist. At best, it can be a bad impression. Very bad. Everyone knows it, but everyone acts like it's completely natural. They give Data advice as if it were a normal relationship, but nothing is normal about what's going on.

• A woman wants a romantic relationship with an android. It's never happened. Of course, this is Star Trek and everyone respects everything, etc., but it is by definition an exceptional event. Literally. And an exceptional event should not be handled like a normal event.
• Everyone gives Data advice as if he were romantically gifted. He isn't. It's repeated ad nauseam. It would be like advising a eunuch on the best sexual positions. It would be ridiculous and embarrassing.
• This is uncharted territory. What does Deanna do? She gives very generic advice and doesn't have a chat with Jenna. Somebody said, "But that's their business." But they are crew members and Deanna is responsible for their emotional and mental well-being. And we've seen in other episodes that Deanna can request to speak to a crew member, she doesn't always have to wait for them to come to her.

My comments are not disrespectful to Data. But in the episode he is portrayed as totally aromantic. Aromanticism exists among humans, and if a totally aromantic acquaintance of mine asked me for advice on how to start a romantic relationship (with a person they have no romantic interest in) I wouldn't give generic advice, I'd say "Are you sure about what you're doing???".

Oh yes you did mean a misunderstanding. You called him an appliance. To me. Bye bye.

 

[altersalk]

Maybe it's just not a very well-written episode and we should all calm down.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

Maybe it's just not a very well-written episode and we should all calm down.

I am fine with the episode, as well as others, so I do not think we all need to calm down. But I don't think the OP is serious.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe it's just not a very well-written episode and we should all calm down.

Agreed. It's an episode that does not play well with the characters strengths.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They even gave him a briefcase to replicate all the "blue-collar worker coming back home after a hard work day" vibe

Briefcases are white collar. Lunch boxes are blue-collar.

 

[Farscape One]

I thought the episode was fine.

 

[Phoenix219]

I just saw this exact same thread on reddit.

 

[Phoenix219]

I liked this episode on The Orville.

 

[Skipper]

I liked this episode on The Orville.

Yep!

 

[Laughing Dragon]

I just saw this exact same thread on reddit.

Not surprised. Sounds like something the OP would do.

The OP is a troll I say. I think he was trying to push a fad to be cool. He also supports rejecting videos as examples.

To add, slightly off topic because it was mentioned in here: Hell, the Troi being worthless theory is still going. With no actual proof. Just that she is. Shows he was a phony in the opening post, imo. Someone even provided an example that she did not just let Data go in halfcocked for lack of a better phrase.

If they are joking about Data and are calling him an appliance, then they have no business being here and are missing the point of the franchise. By singling out an othered character. I am sick of cow towing to these people.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

The OP is a troll I say.

This is specifically against board rules and qualifies for a warning. As it is your first breach in this forum, I will suspend giving the warning but you have been noticed.

 

[CoveTom]

You know what? My mother was around in the 1950's. As were many of her friends. None of them recall it as being an absolute hellish world that they barely escaped from. In fact, they remember it quite fondly. I absolutely hate this characterization of the 1950's that gets bandied about. FWIW.

 

[Phoenix219]

You know what? My mother was around in the 1950's. As were many of her friends. None of them recall it as being an absolute hellish world that they barely escaped from. In fact, they remember it quite fondly. I absolutely hate this characterization of the 1950's that gets bandied about. FWIW.

you will probably be told that they just didn't know how bad it was because they didn't know any better, soon.