One particular SPOILER from The Name of the Doctor

[Lonemagpie]

Since 10 used a regeneration to heal himself in Journey's End, having another Doctor who's forgotten makes the limit very much a subject for the special, as it means he's already used his allotted 12... So we may see definite confirmation of that limit being tossed out the window.

(Since it's been previously established that the Timeys could give out new regen cycles, I've always sort of imagined that the limit has something to do with the number of Timeys- Perhaps there's a race-wide number of regens split between them, which at one point was subdivided into 12 each, but now that there's just the one guy left, he can have them all...)

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Good point about the Valeyard just having been mentioned in "The Name of the Doctor." It occurs to me that if Moffat put in all those lines about the darkness of what the Doctor becomes toward the end of his life, and told a story that focused our attention toward his future and his ultimate fate, that might support the idea that Hurt represents something from the Doctor's future, whether the Valeyard or something else. (And yes, the Doctor speaks of that incarnation in the past tense, but he's a time traveler. He spoke of his own eventual death and entombment in the past tense too.)

It's possible it's a future incarnation, but I doubt it's the Valeyard. I don't think they would hide the ball so shortly after explicitly referencing him.

 

[Tom]

As far as 'Journeys End' goes, its a matter of what counts as a used regeneration. Certainly he used the energy to heal himself then siphoned the part off that would have changed his body. So if we go by how many times he can use the regeneration energy then he has used one in that episode. That said, maybe a regeneration is only counted by a full body metamorphosis and not the energy. Thing is, we don't know for sure.

We know from LKH that the energy is finite as it took all of River's energy (and this her remaining lives) to heal the Doctor. So the indication is the energy level is what dictates the limit, so when the Timelords offered to give the Master a new life cycle they were perhaps just going to 'fill' him up with the energy that would last 12 more regenerations.

Where the doctor is concerned, for all we know the Timelords could have 'filled' him up, so to speak, to help fight the time war. A simple throw away line about that would explain it.

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, the regeneration count still matters.

In all honesty, when the time comes, they're going to negate it anyway. Whether that happens how or within the next decade or so when they actually have a thirteenth actor who wants to leave, it is going to happen.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

(Since it's been previously established that the Timeys could give out new regen cycles, I've always sort of imagined that the limit has something to do with the number of Timeys- Perhaps there's a race-wide number of regens split between them, which at one point was subdivided into 12 each, but now that there's just the one guy left, he can have them all...)

There was an idea that I want to say originated with Dave Stone that Time Lords could theoretically regenerate forever, and to prevent them from doing so they're educated and mentally conditioned that they can only do it the twelve times so that they believe when they've reached the end they expire.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

I just watched "The Name of the Doctor" this afternoon. As I recall, GI mentions that the Doctor has done horrendous things, but in an incarnation (incarnations?) known as "The Storm", "The Beast" and "The Valeyard".

in "The Parting of the Ways", the Ninth Doctor tells the Dalek Emperor (IIRC): "You know what they call me in the ancient legends of the Dalek homeworld? The Oncoming Storm."

I know that "The Oncoming Storm" and "The Storm" are not quite the same term, but is it possible that Nine's knowledge of the "Storm" name and GI's familiarity of that name suggest an incarnation of the Doctor (although by another name) that existed before Eleven's incarnation?

Either way, based on what I have seen, I agree with those who are leaning towards Hurt's Doctor as being the Time War Doctor, and existing between McGann's and Eccleston's incarnations. Also, is it possible that in "The Trial of a Time Lord" The Master's is lying when he says that The Valeyard is an amalgamation of darker natures of the Doctor's twelfth and final incarnations? Ret-conning yes, but it could work. Maybe a desperate Time War Doctor needed to steal the regenerations in some earlier, unsuccessful attempt to end the Time War....

In any case, I thought this episode was excellent! Packed full of Goodness! Can't wait to see what is next!

 

[RoJoHen]

Both Tennant and Smith have also used the name "The Oncoming Storm" to refer to themselves.

 

[Christopher]

I just watched "The Name of the Doctor" this afternoon. As I recall, GI mentions that the Doctor has done horrendous things, but in an incarnation (incarnations?) known as "The Storm", "The Beast" and "The Valeyard".

Not different incarnations, just different names that various enemies applied to him. "The Oncoming Storm" applied to the Doctor as a whole, not to any specific incarnation; the Daleks considered the Doctor their archenemy no matter what face he wore. And given how many Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, Ice Warriors, Zygons, etc. the Doctor has been responsible for killing directly or indirectly, it's no surprise that his enemies would call him "the Beast" even as those he saved hailed him as a hero. That was the point of that line, a point that Moffat had previously made in "The Pandorica Opens" and "A Good Man Goes to War": that while we see the Doctor as a force for good, his enemies see him as the greatest evil in the universe. He's the guy that monsters have nightmares about.

 

[Spanky]

I'd like to think that now we've seen John Hurt what the Doctor saw in room 11 was him.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, the regeneration count still matters.

In all honesty, when the time comes, they're going to negate it anyway. Whether that happens how or within the next decade or so when they actually have a thirteenth actor who wants to leave, it is going to happen.

Yeah, I expect that. I just expect them to address it rather than ignore it.

 

[JoeZhang]

Just to be picky (and someone needs to check) - I think GI said he was called 'Storm' not 'The Storm'.

 

[Gov Kodos]

It's all the criticism of a murderous lunatic reciting the qualms of murderous lunatics on the effrontery of the Doctor stopping them.

 

[Starkers]

Since 10 used a regeneration to heal himself in Journey's End, having another Doctor who's forgotten makes the limit very much a subject for the special, as it means he's already used his allotted 12... So we may see definite confirmation of that limit being tossed out the window.

(Since it's been previously established that the Timeys could give out new regen cycles, I've always sort of imagined that the limit has something to do with the number of Timeys- Perhaps there's a race-wide number of regens split between them, which at one point was subdivided into 12 each, but now that there's just the one guy left, he can have them all...)

Yes but then River used regeneration energy to heal him in Let's Kill Hitler so who knows what that's done to the limit.

And of course he used some energy to heal her wrist in Manhatten...

 

[Robert D. Robot]

....He's the guy that monsters have nightmares about.

It's all the criticism of a murderous lunatic reciting the qualms of murderous lunatics on the effrontery of the Doctor stopping them.

Thanks, Christopher & Gov Kodos... good ways of representing the situation. I need to go watch this episode again!

 

[Redfern]

...while we see the Doctor as a force for good, his enemies see him as the greatest evil in the universe. He's the guy that monsters have nightmares about.

Heh, heh! Now I have this cartoonish mental image of a Dalek reclining in a human styled bed, pulling the covers about istelf as a child might (yeah, this casing flexes due to the "rule of funny") crying out, "Daddy! There's a Doctor under the bed!!!"

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Christopher]

^I was paraphrasing a line Moffat had the Doctor say in "The Girl in the Fireplace" -- which he recycled from his Seventh Doctor prose story "Continuity Errors," which in turn was quoting Paul Cornell's New Adventures novel Love and War. So I can't take credit.

 

[JRoss]

He is McGann, having spent centuries fighting the Time War. Eccleston wasn't the one who ended it.

 

[Mr Soak]

All this talk of the regenration limit, and no one's mentioned Azmael's 13th regeneration in The Twin Dilemma. 12 "natural" regenerations hasn't been a hard and fast limit for almost 30 years.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Re: John Hurt as The Doctor

I think he is either McGann's doctor but a older version, or he is the Doctor before Hartnell, and he did something so bad that when he changed into Hartnell, his doctor ran away and tried to make amends for it all.

I have to confess I was completely unaware that Jon Hurt was going to be in Doctor Who. Having written that, my first thought was that he could be an older Paul McGann. I'm not sure why but it makes perfect sense to me but we'll see.

 

[Skellington]

All this talk of the regenration limit, and no one's mentioned Azmael's 13th regeneration in The Twin Dilemma. 12 "natural" regenerations hasn't been a hard and fast limit for almost 30 years.

Azmael died as a result, though, and The Deadly Assassin had already established that a thirteenth regeneration was always fatal.