On killing major characters...

[Praetor]

So I'm OK with the way Kirk went. He died for what he believed in, and that's the main thing.

That's basically why it has never been a big deal for me. The movie's plot itself however...

 

[JustKate]

Well, yeah, but goodness knows that when they really put their minds to it, they can do a lot worse. And have.

 

[Praetor]

Quite so.

 

[Captain X]

The thing that bothered me about Trip's death the most was that as lame as pretty much all of the other major character deaths were, they at least got a memorial, their friends mourned them in some way, etc. I mean, Yar kept being brought up later in the series, Worf had to deal with Jadzia being dead but Dax still living on in Ezri, Spock dying practically turned Kirk emo, stuff like that. All Trip really got was a scene with T'Pol packing his things up, and even that was soon diverted to talking about that speech we never heard, and later on everyone was all smiles and bitching about being in the nosebleed section - nothing at all of their friend of 10 years they just lost. Hell, for that matter, the speech itself could've ended up having something to do with him.

So really, it's not just how completely arbitrary and contrived his death was, because all of the main character deaths have been like that, it was the lack of reaction from the other characters. If you're going to kill someone to be dramatic, you should, you know, be dramatic.

 

[Strider]

Am I the only one that actually prefers Kirk to be shot in the back, rather than falling off the bridge?

Yeah, but remember Soran's gun? Kirk would have been blown apart Dr. Arszt-style. Would have been a much less dignified exit for a beloved character, what with chunks of Shatner everywhere.

 

[Praetor]

Well, as filmed for the original ending, he wasn't blown apart. He was just shot. Dead.

 

[jamestyler]

Well, as filmed for the original ending, he wasn't blown apart. He was just shot. Dead.

I'm pretty sure it's on the special edition, but I've only seen it on YouTube. I thought that ending was a little underwhelming though and didn't work as well as the fall.

 

[Praetor]

I don't know, I never fully liked the fall.

 

[Myasishchev]

Dax's death was fine until the hokey deathbed scene. If you're gonna kill her off, that's fine; she's in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Dukat even apologizes to her seeming-corpse. But wait - she lives!! But just barely. And Starfleet medical which can save any major character any other time can't help her. Boooo.

Part of the reason Jadzia's death was so lame was that it's inextricably tied to Dukat's transformation into the Bajoran Antichrist, which was the lamest thing they ever did on DS9, including the Ferengi Crying Game.

But yes, for preference, she'd have died on the Defiant, and gotten her head knocked off by a plasma stream. No death speech--hardly anyone gets to give a death speech in real life, and the ones who do are delirious from pain and fear.* And it would've taught Terry Farrel a valuable lesson about salary negotiations.

I also agree that the "Worf screams at heaven" bit was played and by-the-numbers, especially by his eighth year in Trek. A quiet scene where he just stares at the symbiont suspended in stasis, not quite comprehending what the response Klingon culture demands here, wondering if Jadzia really is dead, really kind of just amazed that the slug was his wife, unsure if it still is--that would've been better.

*Edit: Spock gets a free pass. Even his resurrection worked. -_-

 

[The Borg Queen]

Think of them as just "redshirts" who's stories we've been following along with the main characters.

"Oh look, Tasha Yar died. Next redshirt please."

 

[Vonstadt]

Kirk being shot in the back would've worked for me, much like wen it happened to John Wayne in the Cowboys when Bruce Dern shot him that way.

Oh the uproar that would've caused! Dern had issues finding work for real after that too :P

As for Dax I wish the writers and the TPTB had taken more of a risk, and had her die on that mission because Work had carried through with their mission. Had him have to cope with completeing his mission and duty at a terrible cost. Which I could see him do (Heck i could even see Dax carry through with the mission), even when it turns out to be the wrong choice and the ending is uncomfortable it is still bold writing.

I really think they missed the boat there, especialy with Dax leaving the show anyway.

 

[Messianni]

I mean, Yar kept being brought up later in the series, Worf had to deal with Jadzia being dead but Dax still living on in Ezri, Spock dying practically turned Kirk emo, stuff like that.

Since when is mourning the loss of your best friend at the hands of one of your greatest enemies, and greatest failures, "emo"? What an obnoxious, overused, oft-abused term.

Dax's death was fine until the hokey deathbed scene. If you're gonna kill her off, that's fine; she's in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Dukat even apologizes to her seeming-corpse. But wait - she lives!! But just barely. And Starfleet medical which can save any major character any other time can't help her. Boooo.

I also agree that the "Worf screams at heaven" bit was played and by-the-numbers, especially by his eighth year in Trek. A quiet scene where he just stares at the symbiont suspended in stasis, not quite comprehending what the response Klingon culture demands here, wondering if Jadzia really is dead, really kind of just amazed that the slug was his wife, unsure if it still is--that would've been better.

Wow, I really like that idea. The idea of the mighty Klingon warrior being reduced to silence would have had much more emotional impact.

 

[Praetor]

I agree. Worf actually not behaving like the Klingon stereotype he was sometimes reduced to would have made that scene tolerable.

 

[dreadpiraterose]

I sometimes think the question isn't so much whether the death should be in some sort of extraordinary manner, but whether the audience is likely to end up feeling as though it should have been avoidable.

Exactly. The death needs to make sense and its needs to be plausible. Trip officially has the LAMEST death in Trek history.

 

[24thcenstfan]

I was reading this older article about Connor Trinnear's reaction to getting killed off in the final ep of Enterprise...

he felt that the death scene itself was scripted somewhat arbitrarily because "I've gotten out of much worse scrapes than that"

http://www.treknation.com/articles/trinneer_trektrak2005.shtml

I think this is interesting because it also applies other lame Trek death scenes I've witnessed, especially Kirk's.

If you're going to kill a major character off...one who's already been through hell and lived to tell about it...you'd better make sure he's killed through very extraordinary circumstances.

Otherwise, the audience just ain't gonna buy it.

I agree with this sentiment. Killing major characters off should be "last resort" type storylines and if done, the writers should make sure the death isn't a throw away type scene. Trip's death was on the throw away end of the spectrum IMO. The whole sequences of events seemed rushed and illogical. A couple of other deaths that made more sense to me (even though sad when happened), were Spock's death in ST:II and Data's death/destruction in Nemesis.

 

[Count Zero]

Kirk went out on the bridge to get the device, but had no reason to think that he wouldn't "cheat death" as he had so many times before. He risked his life, but no more so than on dozens of other occasions.

And one of the many times it went wrong for him. I don't think that's necessarily bad but rather realistic.

FWIW, the original ending of Generations had Soren shooting Kirk in the back. It was changed after the initial focus group audiences complained that Kirk should die a more heroic death.

I like the idea, even though I never had a problem with Kirk's death.

The only Trek deaths that bugged me were those of Trip and Data. While death is rather arbitrary these deaths irk me because they were just there to create a dramatic tension the writers didn't know how to achieve otherwise. This is particularly true of Trip's death which even got heavy-handed foreshadowing. Just cheap, lazy story-telling and a sign of lacking craftmanship. TATV reminded me of a bad fan fiction story. So did STX to a lesser extent. I don't mind major characters getting killed but it shouldn't be a cheap plot point because the writers don't know how to create drama. One of my favourite series has an extremely high death count among the main characters (and a high body count overall), and most of them don't die in a "heroic" fashion, but rather arbitrarily, yet it never felt contrived, stupid or empty when they did.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The one thing I do like about Trip's death was his post-death scene. The death itself was about as arbitrary as one could get and irritating for that reason. But that scene was well-acted (credit to Connor Trinneer) and had a good musical score. But, yeah, that's about it.