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Ok. What is the chance of a Picard spinoff?

Paramount wants to keep doing the Kelvin films (they've introduced a lot of new fans to the Trek franchise).
Wanting to and doing it are two very different things

For my part I wouldn't mind them continuing. Trek has room for all of it. And I'm under no illusions about the resumption of the Prime universe for films. All Trek movies except TMP were mid-budget pictures, a category that doesn't exist anymore. There will never big a big screen Discovery or Strange New World or 1701-G movie. There will never big a big screen 'Star Trek XI'. So as over the Kelvinverse I am, if they want to do it and put money into it, great! I'll go see it.

But objectively speaking, especially in the age of higher interest rates where borrowing is harder (and ALL big films are financed through borrowing), a return to Kelvinverse is not a sure bet. More likely, in my eyes, is that closer to 2030 we'll get a new cast reboot in another parallel reality.

Right now, I just don't see how Paramount goes to Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan and asks for $300-400 million for a Star Trek film. Not with this movie going environment, these interest rates, and Beyond's flop status.
 
Kelvin timeline would be a welcome addition to the variety of Trek currently on tap.
There are elements (e.g., Khan's magic blood, transwarp beaming, etc,) of the Kelvin Universe where I feel they wrote themselves into corners that fundamentally undermined the story tension going forward.

They also make some character choices that fundamentally alter the relationships between the main characters in ways that I don't think work as well. Pine does his best with the writing that he's been given, but his version of Kirk is a character that's perpetually doubting whether Starfleet and the Enterprise are places he should be versus Shatner's Kirk always feeling the need to be in that chair to make a difference. I also felt that Quinto never quite captured the conflict of Spock's nature, playing him much more emotional.

Part of the reason Kirk's death in Into Darkness doesn't have the emotional punch or work as well as Wrath of Khan is that it doesn't have the foundation of their friendship in the same way as you believe it between Shatner and Nimoy. I just never buy the closeness of brothers between those two characters, or the "family" aspect of that cast in the same way as the OG TOS crew.

Also, for everyone that had problems with "nostalgia" and "member-berries" in Picard season 3, that same basic dynamic is present for the Kelvin Universe, it's just a situation where that nostalgia has been done very badly such in the case of how the Khan character was handled in Into Darkness.

At least with either a 25th or 32nd century show, the story would move forward while using the past instead of reinterpreting the past.
 
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Part of the reason Kirk's death in Into Darkness doesn't have the emotional punch or work as well as Wrath of Khan is that it doesn't have the foundation of their friendship in the same way as you believe it between Shatner and Nimoy. I just never buy the closeness of brothers between those two characters, or the "family" aspect of that cast in the same way as the OG TOS crew.
Well, for me, I don't want it like TWOK. I'm there for Pine and Quinto. I'm moved but in a different way and that death still gets me, but for entirely different reasons than TWOK.
At least with either a 25th or 32nd century show, the story would move forward while using the past instead of reinterpreting the past.
On this part I do agree and welcome it for sure. I just believe there is room for both. A balance if you will.
 
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The production attention to detail is David Blass. He did what they should have done Discovery Season 1 and told his people "This is a period piece of the future... elaborate and recreate don't innovate" (in so many words).
An amazing recruit, likely made by Matalas. I highly doubt Dave Blass would be caught on the Blu-ray special features pronouncing Data's name the initial Dr. Pulaski way ;)

And I argue wholeheartedly that Star Trek is a period piece. Otherwise it is stuck in some infinite present where the past and future hold no meaning. And yes, that includes TOS...

Season fell apart for me a bit at the end and I have nitpicks and I've heard Terry say they just didn't have time or money. It seems like they didn't even know if they were going to be able to use the Enterprise D bridge until the last minute and they only had 2 days to film with it.
It's just insane to consider what they pulled off. Matalas definitely had passion and commitment to the project. That said, I gave 309 a 5/10 and 310 an 8/10.
 
The only thing I wonder about is what else can Terry bring to the table. Lack of question mark at the end of that sentence intentional. I know he'll be able to bring something. But, I can reverse-engineer everything he did to put PIC Season 3 together and it relies heavily on recombining elements from the TOS Movies and applying them to the TNG Characters. There's nothing left from the TOS Movies that he can rework and the TNG Characters are out of the equation, short of guest-appearance. So Legacy would be without the two major things that made PIC Season 3 what it is.

A lot more development needs to go into the Enterprise-G crew. Legacy also has to finish establishing where all the AQ Powers stand. It also has to offer stories that couldn't already be told on Strange New Worlds.
 
All Trek movies except TMP were mid-budget pictures, a category that doesn't exist anymore.
And this will keep any further Star Trek movies from being made, until this current era of films collapses and audiences get sick enough of what Hollywood's been putting out. They have to be in a state where they want to make medium-budget films again because they'll be lower risk, after smarting from a bunch of expensive flops. I think this will eventually happen, but not soon enough for there to be another Abrams Film.
 
The only thing I wonder about is what else can Terry bring to the table. Lack of question mark at the end of that sentence intentional. I know he'll be able to bring something. But, I can reverse-engineer everything he did to put PIC Season 3 together and it relies heavily on recombining elements from the TOS Movies and applying them to the TNG Characters. There's nothing left from the TOS Movies that he can rework and the TNG Characters are out of the equation, short of guest-appearance. So Legacy would be without the two major things that made PIC Season 3 what it is.
Would you be open to giving 12 Monkeys a try? It's streaming on Hulu. Could give a view of his wider work.

Plus, he'd be aware of all the low hanging fruit that Brannon Braga and company considered over the years that was vetoed by Rick Berman, UPN, or the studio -- or structurally impossible because of structural constraints in the late 90's / early 2000's.
 
I'd rather the Legacies be actual legacies and not the old timers.

How do you know that these legacy characters won’t be a vehicle to introduce new characters to the show (ex. Bashir and Ezri’s kids), or a way to let other characters have an exit from it?

I’m fine with Legacy characters but I am starting to get a bit tired of the Voyager gang.

You mean the same Voyager gang that never got a followup after the events of Endgame?

Children are often regarded as both our legacy and future, this Sidney LaForge and Jack Crusher would be considered "legacy" characters as they carry TNG character namesakes into the future.

Seven of Nine is one of the better-developed characters in Star Trek history. She has transformed from a Borg drone to a Star Fleet Officer that was instrumental in defeating the Borg once and for all (maybe).

There is enough connection to those characters to build upon without relying on characters past and fan service. I don't think it will happen, but there is great potential.

Yes, there's a connection to the characters to be built on. But the show still needs viewers an CBS still needs to feel confident about the direction of the show. PIC S3 has proven that bringing in legacy characters leads to greater approval from the audience, compared to what they did before in the first two seasons.

If Legacy does happen I hope it’s not a TNG, DS9 and VOY character of the week show. I love nostalgia and call backs but in moderation. Too much of a good thing is not good for long. You don’t want to overeat sugar or you’ll get a stomach ache.

How would it be any different from Bones, Scotty, Spock guest appearing on TNG? Or Picard in the premiere of DS9? Or Quark in the premiere of Voyager? Or Zefram Cochrane in the premiere of Enterprise? All who got a moment and then left the shows alone to develop without them.

And how do you know that it wouldn't open the door to a Star Trek Legends show being developed for all of these legacy Trek characters to get a special episode devoted to them?
 
Petition now over 36,100...

The petition was created by the Popcast YouTube channel. Today they put up a video making the case for why they're increasingly optimistic.
I won’t watch the video, but do they really expect a petition to do anything? If so, then I’m sorry, but that’s a bit delusional
 
Plus, he'd be aware of all the low hanging fruit that Brannon Braga and company considered over the years that was vetoed by Rick Berman, UPN, or the studio -- or structurally impossible because of structural constraints in the late 90's / early 2000's.
That or something B&B set up but did nothing with. The Vaadwaur, for starters. Not that I'm saying they should do anything with them, but it's one of the most obvious examples coming to mind.
 
How would it be any different from Bones, Scotty, Spock guest appearing on TNG? Or Picard in the premiere of DS9? Or Quark in the premiere of Voyager? Or Zefram Cochrane in the premiere of Enterprise? All who got a moment and then left the shows alone to develop without them.

A two minute cameo in the pilot is not a charecter every week. Absolutely having a previous character launching a show makes sense, but if Seven's going to be on board and we've had 3 seasons of Raffi then that isn't really neccersary to "link" the series into the same universe.

In TNG it wasn't until the end of season 3 that an episode from a TOS character (not a main one) appeared for a main story point. There were a total of 3 episodes out of c.150 with previous characters, and 2 or 3 with DS9 (Quark

In DS9, setting aside O'Brien, we had Lwaxana in a couple of episodes and Tom Riker in Defiant, the TOS gang in Tribbleations, and of course Worf from S4

Voyager brought in Sulu, then later Barclay and Troi

Enterprise never had anyone aside from the Cochrane cameo

1 previous character a year every 30 episodes is one thing. 1 every episode is something very different.
 
And this will keep any further Star Trek movies from being made, until this current era of films collapses and audiences get sick enough of what Hollywood's been putting out. They have to be in a state where they want to make medium-budget films again because they'll be lower risk, after smarting from a bunch of expensive flops. I think this will eventually happen, but not soon enough for there to be another Abrams Film.
I love Marvel films. They're great. But this is totally a phase of movies. Same as Westerns. In fact, Westerns are easily the best analogue. It'll come and it'll go.

It may already be going. There's been good superhero films since Avengers: Endgame but audiences have been tepid and Marvel's thematic and character risk taking isn't paying off. Doctor Strange was quite good, but Thor was not the followup to Ragnarok most people wanted/expected (I liked it, but they fumbled it). Eternals got Star Trek: Nemesis'd and was murdered in the editing room. Black Panther was fine but not as good as the first. Ant Man was fine, but missed why the first two were so good. Captain Marvel is gonna be another meh film because Brie Larson is collecting a paycheck. Their roadmap doesn't have the gas to get to the end of Phase 6. They need to offer RDJ a mountain of money and get Iron Man 4 made.

James Gunn's plans for DC Films is basically a suicide pact. I predict he gets fired by 2026.

Once we're out of the super hero phase, I think midbudget will come back. The end of easy loans from banks for movies to finance these pictures (since they dont have the cash on hand to pay for them upfront) may also force it. More Batmans, fewer Shazams, and more budget aware films. Furthermore the shifting streaming landscape may encourage it too. Consolidation and tighter budgets coould give people less of a reason to stay home and watch things than go to theaters.

It's easy to forget in the moment of living it, but things lasting a few years, or even 10 years, is still a fad. Consider social media. Remember when everyone naively posted their entire lives on Facebook? Except for boomers that died forever ago. It was ultimately a fad (and Facebook has been in a slow decline ever since). Social media as a whole may be a fad. Superhero films? Probably also a fad.

I'm sure more Star Trek films will be made eventually. But just not until we've wrapped up a few fads.
 
Would you be open to giving 12 Monkeys a try? It's streaming on Hulu. Could give a view of his wider work.

Plus, he'd be aware of all the low hanging fruit that Brannon Braga and company considered over the years that was vetoed by Rick Berman, UPN, or the studio -- or structurally impossible because of structural constraints in the late 90's / early 2000's.
This is the important part about Matals. Right here.

I was in these forums (on an old account) in the early 2000s / late 1990s. I remember folks basically SCREAMING at Berman and Braga to grab the obvious story paths and potential character development standing right in front of them. And they would not do it. We found out later some of that was because UPN wouldn't let them, some of that was burnout, and some of them was creative myopia.

Matalas is a seasoned producer by this point, but sees the franchise in the broad strokes. His interviews and statements paint a very clear picture. He sees the enormous missed opportunities of the Berman era, but also its strengths. He was a junior staffer, so seemingly "gets it" in a way a lot of us fans did at the time. But he was like 27 and had no power.

He said perhaps the cleverest thing I've seen a producer say about Star Trek in a long time regarding the Borg and Changelings in S3. He observed, rightly, that the Federation, through proxies (S31 and Janeway) felled it's two greatst rivals in the 2370s through the use of biological weapons, and in part, that hypocrisy motivated them to work together to hit back at the Federation when he could. That's the kind of storyline a fan in a forum post would draw up because the origin of them were entirely independent (different shows, different writing staffs, different years, different crews) but Matalas saw the Federation basically winning the 24th century because everyone else either had a real bad time (the Klingons, the Gamma Quadrant Dominion) or were nearly annhilated (the Romulans, the Borg). So by 2401, the way the Federation got attacked, was the ONLY way it could. It's the legacy of the two great fights of the second half of the 24th century. Good story. And how did they get back at the federation? Through a biological weapon fo their own... one Seven of Nine may have worked on (Dark Frontier) in its original form.

Few producers would have ever been brave enough to do that, because they would have thought it was too in the weeds. They're turned off by tying these disparate things together. Too fandom. But it worked. It really worked. And I think he'd have the courage to do it again.
 
There'll always be superhero movies, but superhero flicks (and the MCU in particular) have now definitely peaked since around Infinity War or Endgame after many, many years since Iron Man 1 and The Dark Knight (and inevitably familiarity breeding contempt and general burn out is affecting the audiences and critics, with slowly diminishing box office returns).
 
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Starfleet Academy has its large rear end in the way, so for now I would imagine it's on hold until we say goodbye to one of the other shows.

Lets break down the OOC timeline for a moment.

The earliest they could have a STL out is 2025 at the earliest. By that time Lower Decks if it gets another approved season will be on season 6!, Prodigy will be on season 3 probably. SNWs if it gets another season for 2025 will be on season 4 (SNW has at max a life of 5 seasons before we end up in the TOS toes if need be they can close it at 4 seasons even,for streaming that's a long run), and Academy will have its first season, Discovery will have been over by a year at this time.

Its even possible it won't be till 2026 that STL could come out with the writers strike.

So if absolutely needed they could retire LD or SNW by that time, LD has had a long run, and SNWs like Picard had a finite lifespan before it ever even aired.
 
P+ has different subscription plans. The cheapest one is ad based and has tv like breaks during episodes.



They can still silently cancel the production of SFA32 and use the funds for #StarTrekLegacy. Then, in a few years they can produce a one off tv movie with Brendan Fraser, playing the head of Starfleet Academy…

No need, looking at a realistic timeline of when a STL could realistically come out given even predevelopment hasn't even started yet, odds are SNWs will either be over or have 1 season left at most for overlap. Like Picard its got a known max life span before it even aired, SNWs has to end before TOS starts. STL won't even start production until next year at best, that means a release of 2025 at the earliest, with writer strike it could 2026, by that time SNWs will have at best 1 season to go, abit of overlap shouldn't be a problem.
 
Paramount wants to keep doing the Kelvin films
Do they? As of this summer, it'll be seven years since Beyond was released, roughly the same amount of time a 90s Trek TV series lasted and currently the largest gap between any Trek film. In that time, though many proposed fourth Kelvin films have been announced, none have materialized. At this point, many of the Kelvin timeline actors have moved onto other things, and one has actually died. I really don't see much of a future in the Kelvin timeline, especially not now where Trek's presence on TV is flourishing and making the franchise more popular than it's been since the 90s.
 
S2 was just such a missed opportunity. So much promise. I wanted them to show a competently fascist (Con)federation. Not cartoonish supervillainy of the Mirror Universe where people stab each other in turbolifts, but an alternate universe where advanced technology coupled with serious minded but evil people created a highly successful totalitarian nightmare. We got snippets of that in S2 but it was over far too quick to get to Los Angeles (probably to save money on more sets? Shooting on location is very expensive though). Apparently, there was originally more episodes and a larger share of the season planned for the Confederation timeline.

What the season really needed was basically a fascist "General Riker" acting as the chief antagonist for 2/3rds of it. Imagine Jonathan Frakes doing Riker but serious-evil, and set him against a universe-displaced Picard. That would have been something.

They could have shown a fascist 25th century Los Angeles with Confederation banners everywhere and Sanctuary Districts still in place. I just don’t think they wanted to explain all the cars on the road in the 25th century. Even though that could have been explained as the Confederation’s conquests being a way to sustain their way of living off of fossil fuels.

Don't forget about Alexander. Matalas has said Alexander would appear in Legacy.

And Matalas wants Jack and Wesley to meet.

Right now, I just don't see how Paramount goes to Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan and asks for $300-400 million for a Star Trek film. Not with this movie going environment, these interest rates, and Beyond's flop status.

They simply say the following:

"Beyond flopped because it was fan backlash toward Into Darkness. Much like how Solo flopped because it was a fan backlash towords The Last Jedi."

1 previous character a year every 30 episodes is one thing. 1 every episode is something very different.

So it’s different. What’s wrong with different? Especially when its just for one season?

And this will keep any further Star Trek movies from being made

I can actually see the Prodigy movie getting made. And Chris Pine has been open to doing a talky Trek movie in place of more action. I'd imagine being talky - aka acting - would bring down costs as there is no need for a bunch of special effects.
 
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