Ok. What is the chance of a Picard spinoff?

[Scionz]

These scores make sense. S1 was divisive. So the score is split down the middle. A lot of people didn't like S2. If even I'm not defending S2, that's saying something. And then there's S3.

On top of that, Alex Kurtzman goes out of his way to say we've been heard. So there you go.

S2 was just such a missed opportunity. So much promise. I wanted them to show a competently fascist (Con)federation. Not cartoonish supervillainy of the Mirror Universe where people stab each other in turbolifts, but an alternate universe where advanced technology coupled with serious minded but evil people created a highly successful totalitarian nightmare. We got snippets of that in S2 but it was over far too quick to get to Los Angeles (probably to save money on more sets? Shooting on location is very expensive though). Apparently, there was originally more episodes and a larger share of the season planned for the Confederation timeline.

What the season really needed was basically a fascist "General Riker" acting as the chief antagonist for 2/3rds of it. Imagine Jonathan Frakes doing Riker but serious-evil, and set him against a universe-displaced Picard. That would have been something.

 

[gvn2fly]

Ugh. I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Boldly Going Where We've Already Gone Before.....

Don't forget about Alexander. Matalas has said Alexander would appear in Legacy.

 

[gvn2fly]

S2 was just such a missed opportunity. So much promise. I wanted them to show a competently fascist (Con)federation. Not cartoonish supervillainy of the Mirror Universe where people stab each other in turbolifts, but an alternate universe where advanced technology coupled with serious minded but evil people created a highly successful totalitarian nightmare. We got snippets of that in S2 but it was over far too quick to get to Los Angeles (probably to save money on more sets? Shooting on location is very expensive though). Apparently, there was originally more episodes and a larger share of the season planned for the Confederation timeline.

What the season really needed was basically a fascist "General Riker" acting as the chief antagonist for 2/3rds of it. Imagine Jonathan Frakes doing Riker but serious-evil, and set him against a universe-displaced Picard. That would have been something.

We were originally going to be in the Confederation timeline for at least two episodes but it was cut to 1.

 

[gvn2fly]

I think Kelvinverse is dead. At this point it's an answer to a question no one asked.

I'm sorry for the fans who loved those movies and want to see more but I think this is good. When those movies came out we never knew if we'd see the prime timeline again. I never really thought we would - Trek had been effectively rebooted after all. Now that we've been back in the prime timeline for 12 seasons since Beyond came out, it just seems odd to go back to that alternate reality for a movie. Maybe a future show can visit the Kelvin timeline as Discovery established it as another universe. I've also always thought, except for a few exceptions, Trek just works so much better as a television show.

 

[fireproof78]

Kelvin timeline would be a welcome addition to the variety of Trek currently on tap.

 

[gvn2fly]

Kelvin timeline would be a welcome addition to the variety of Trek currently on tap.

I just don't really like those movies. Not to say a movie I did like couldn't be made in that timeline but i just don't see the point.

 

[fireproof78]

I just don't really like those movies. Not to say a movie I did like couldn't be made in that timeline but i just don't see the point.

The point? The point is fun and interesting characters. I welcome it.

 

[James Cole]

Yeah but without them the Terry uberfans will turn on Terry and deem his Trek not-Trek and question the canonocity of it all.

Ok, I'm one of the "Terry fans" on this BBS. Star Trek and 12 Monkeys have an overlapping fanbase. It's hard to describe just how much goodwill Matalas built up from 12 Monkeys. Not only is it really good, but he did a great job engaging with fans on podcasts, yes Twitter, and he's even a co-admin on the main 12 Monkeys Facebook group.

Was PICARD season 3 perfect? No. It faced severe budget constraints faced by no other NuTrek seasons, little time in pre-production to have everything fully meld together, several leaps of logic, frustrating nitpick mistakes, and hits one of my major pet peeves throughout the entire franchise of glossing over mass causality events -- from having people getting killed left and right on the Titan with little reflection in the aftermath to even worse a staff writer in a live stream being unable to quantify just how many people died in the final two episodes, which at the very least would be far more than Wolf 359 and potentially that Mars attack from the first season flashback.

But from where I'm standing it is the best live action season of NuTrek. It feels like an natural evolution of the 24th century Berman-era. The swearing and violence goes slightly too far, but at least is paired down greatly from season 1. There is real attention to detail in the production design, and the serialized plot again holds up far better than the other seasons of PICARD or the first two seasons of DISCOVERY (bailed after that). The TNG characters get their best material since 1994. It isn't "about nothing"... instead about family, legacy, and generational succession. It respected legacy continuity. And finally it has that "Star Trek feel" that only "The Star Gazer" offered between 2005 and 2022.

I think if a Matalas-run Legacy continued to respect the source material, squared the circle of catering to the broader fanbase while being accessible to newcomers, and tells a good story with well developed characters it would be successful.

 

[Scionz]

The point? The point is fun and interesting characters. I welcome it.

I felt like this too for years, and then I saw the SNW Discoprise bridge and saw Ethan Peck spock performance and Celia Rose Gooding Uhura performance, and realized how much of a crock of shit the Kelvinverse really is. All style, no substance. But then again, JJ Abrams. We knew, before Star Wars fans did.

I'd love for Pine to be the new Prime Kirk, but that'll never happen. But aside from that, I hope hope the Devidians have the way with that timeline.

 

[fireproof78]

All style, no substance

You and I watched different films.

But aside from that, I hope hope the Devidians have the way with that timeline.

Wow. Harsh.

 

[James Cole]

I'd love for Pine to be the new Prime Kirk, but that'll never happen. But aside from that, I hope hope the Devidians have the way with that timeline.

The best way forward for the franchise is a multiverse.

 

[Scionz]

Ok, I'm one of the "Terry fans" on this BBS. Star Trek and 12 Monkeys have an overlapping fanbase. It's hard to describe just how much goodwill Matalas built up from 12 Monkeys. Not only is it really good, but he did a great job engaging with fans on podcasts, yes Twitter, and he's even a co-admin on the main 12 Monkeys Facebook group.

Was PICARD season 3 perfect? No. It faced severe budget constraints faced by no other NuTrek seasons, little time in pre-production to have everything fully meld together, several leaps of logic, frustrating nitpick mistakes, and hits one of my major pet peeves throughout the entire franchise of glossing over mass causality events -- from having people getting killed left and right on the Titan with little reflection in the aftermath to even worse a staff writer in a live stream being unable to quantify just how many people died in the final two episodes, which at the very least would be far more than Wolf 359 and potentially that Mars attack from the first season flashback.

But from where I'm standing it is the best live action season of NuTrek. It feels like an natural evolution of the 24th century Berman-era. The swearing and violence goes slightly too far, but at least is paired down greatly from season 1. There is real attention to detail in the production design, and the serialized plot again holds up far better than the other seasons of PICARD or the first two seasons of DISCOVERY (bailed after that). The TNG characters get their best material since 1994. It isn't "about nothing"... instead about family, legacy, and generational succession. It respected legacy continuity. And finally it has that "Star Trek feel" that only "The Star Gazer" offered between 2005 and 2022.

I think if a Matalas-run Legacy continued to respect the source material, squared the circle of catering to the broader fanbase while being accessible to newcomers, and tells a good story with well developed characters it would be successful.

The production attention to detail is David Blass. He did what they should have done Discovery Season 1 and told his people "This is a period piece of the future... elaborate and recreate don't innovate" (in so many words).

He has made exactly one mistake as I see it, nd that's that the Enterprise-G bridge has too many railings and stairs. But he said he wanted to make more changes to the bridge to differentiate it from the Stargazer, but had no money to do so, so maybe he'll do fixes if we get Legacy.

Matalas and Blass are the guys to carry the 24th century forward. And they're both damn cool people too. Matalas will talk and debate and give insight. Blass holds nothing back and is clearly a massive enthusiast of the franchise's visual design history. This is very good for Trek.

Seriously, if anyone isn't on twitter follow their tweets (and who they retweet), you're missing an enormous amount. The level of concept art, behind the scenes, production insight, comments on plots and road taken / not taken has been as rewarding as watching the episode itself.

I can't think of another time in recent history we had a producer who would say in so many words "Of course we wanted Admiral Janeway and Captain Kim and all these other characters, but we had no money for it!". No mutli-year speculation. Just layin it out.

 

[gvn2fly]

I felt like this too for years, and then I saw the SNW Discoprise bridge and saw Ethan Peck spock performance and Celia Rose Gooding Uhura performance, and realized how much of a crock of shit the Kelvinverse really is. All style, no substance. But then again, JJ Abrams. We knew, before Star Wars fans did.

I'd love for Pine to be the new Prime Kirk, but that'll never happen. But aside from that, I hope hope the Devidians have the way with that timeline.

I definitely prefer Peck over Quinto. SNW is fun!

 

[fireproof78]

Seriously, if anyone isn't on twitter follow their tweets (and who they retweet), you're missing an enormous amount. The level of concept art, behind the scenes, production insight, comments on plots and road taken / not taken has been as rewarding as watching the episode itself.

Twitter is a cesspool. I'll wait until the movie comes out.

The production attention to detail is David Blass. He did what they should have done Discovery Season 1 and told his people "This is a period piece of the future... elaborate and recreate don't innovate" (in so many words).

Ugh. So static. Star Trek isn't history. It used to innovate. Now, it's sterile.

 

[gvn2fly]

Was PICARD season 3 perfect? No. It faced severe budget constraints faced by no other NuTrek seasons, little time in pre-production to have everything fully meld together, several leaps of logic, frustrating nitpick mistakes,

Season fell apart for me a bit at the end and I have nitpicks and I've heard Terry say they just didn't have time or money. It seems like they didn't even know if they were going to be able to use the Enterprise D bridge until the last minute and they only had 2 days to film with it.

Considering all the constraints and they still managed to make a very satisfying season says a lot about the talent behind the scenes I think.

 

[Scionz]

You and I watched different films.

We did not. I'm all about Star Trek's bullshit science. But detonating Cold Fusion bomb in a volcano, dunking the Enterprise in the ocean to hide it, Kirk's riding around on a motorcycle in Beyond was enough for me.

I enjoy the films, but they're not worth continuing. The best part of it are Pine's and Karl Urban's excellent performances (especially Urban, should have mentioned that up thread), and the villian backstory / reveal in Star Trek Beyond. Idris Elba's Earth-first feeling in the wake of the Xindi War is an excellent follow up to Terra Prime and Enterprise as a whole. Loved that.

But we can do those stories in Prime.

Wow. Harsh.

If Peter David's New Frontier can be erased from existence by them, so can a universe where the Enterprise's secondary hull is a brewery.

JJ Abrams' brain is where creativity goes to die. Guy is a hack and always will be.

 

[fireproof78]

I enjoy the films, but they're not worth continuing.

1000% disagree. Kirk and Spock's characters arcs are beautiful, inspiring to me and I welcome it's continuation.

Peter David's New Frontier can be erased from existence by them, so can a universe where the Enterprise's secondary hull is a brewery.

I guess if you don't care about Kelvin I can't be fussed by New Frontier.

 

[Scionz]

Twitter is a cesspool. I'll wait until the movie comes out.

Twitter is the internet. Of course it's a cesspool. The parts of the internet that aren't a cesspool is because it just hasn't gotten there yet.

However whatever retrospective about production is made (if it is made) will only encompassed a fraction of what has shared. They've been sharing the past two days this amazing behind the scenes look at how the Enterprise D horseshoe was made and how the screens (this time LCD screens) were carefully put into the sets while keeping the look. It's been really, really interesting. The level of artistry... and more than that, the level of forensic research (because they had very little) that went into the project is extraordinary.

Ugh. So static. Star Trek isn't history. It used to innovate. Now, it's sterile.

If we're talking about the 32nd century I agree. I LOVE the look of Discovery. The move to the 32nd century saved the show and it alway should have been there. I love the look of the ships, the uniform and everything else. And yes, I like what they did with the 23rd century now. I think we finally have an "evergreen" style they can use for it for years to come.

But the 24th century has a fairly defined look that has stood up very well, especially with a few modern flourishes. If we're going back to the 24th century, there is a look to observe.

 

[fireproof78]

Twitter is the internet. Of course it's a cesspool. The parts of the internet that aren't a cesspool is because it just hasn't gotten there yet.

Pass.

But the 24th century has a fairly defined look that has stood up very well, especially with a few modern flourishes. If we're going back to the 24th century, there is a look to observe.

And pass.

Observing is fine but you can innovate too. People say '"respect the past" but really it means memorialize it and entomb it in such sacred language little, if any changes, will be tolerated.

SNW is striking the balance better, as did Kelvin IMHO. Season 3 is a swansong for this era but I'm not ready for it to be ensconced in funerary vestments yet.

 

[Danja]

Paramount wants to keep doing the Kelvin films (they've introduced a lot of new fans to the Trek franchise).