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Ok. What is the chance of a Picard spinoff?

Were there jokes about passing gas in Prodigy that I missed, or something?
S1E6. Pog's "gaseous anomaly"

But fart jokes are not what i'm talking about.

It's the themes, and HOW the story is told. Again, Prodigy isn't bad. I'm not sitting here saying it's an awful show that needs to go die. I'm saying it would be better presented in a more mature format with more mature themes.
 
What exactly can change to make something "adult"?
How is SNW more mature than Prodigy? Were there jokes about passing gas in Prodigy that I missed, or something?
No clue, but I'm sure someone would try to do it because...kid's show.

I honestly don't know. I cry during kid's shows, and I cry during adult shows. I feel like the emotions mean more than the framing device.
 
It's the themes, and HOW the story is told. Again, Prodigy isn't bad. I'm not sitting here saying it's an awful show that needs to go die. I'm saying it would be better presented in a more mature format with more mature themes.

Again, what would you change? Besides the age of the characters, what part makes this seem less mature to you than TOS? The themes are mature. Just as mature as any other episode of Star Trek. The only difference is that the leads are younger and thus act younger. But there's life and death, struggles of acceptance and family... this isn't like Barney or Sesame Street, where you're teaching kids the differences between "near" and "far".
I'd argue that Lower Decks, not a kids show (again, whatever this means), is less mature than Prodigy.
 
I wasn't aware that the PIC sets had been destroyed, so there's an added cost.

They would've been destroyed regardless.

The ONLY potential advantage SFA has is likely being targeted a different audience, the young adult crowd. It has potential to bring in a new audience, although it has potential to push away the existing fanbase. Kurtzman has addressed this, and while I don't trust Kurtzman as far as I can throw him, the fact that he's at least signaled he's aware of it is mildly promising. He's said something along the lines of "the show needs to be accessible to a new fan just picking it up, but also satisfying for an old fan with decades of canon knowledge".

Why is this not an issue with Better Call Saul?

Better Call Saul is a spinoff of Breaking Bad. Shouldn't the person who watches BCS have a knowledge of Breaking Bad?

Maybe Seven could have a flashback of her time in the Borg? She's certainly of far more interest than Jack Crusher being the spawn of Beverly and JL.

If I were writing the show, I'd limit the progeny to Jack and the La Forge sisters. There's no reason to have everyone's spawn and their cat aboard the Enterprise-G (No Miral Paris. No Kestra Troi-Riker.)

It took THREE YEARS to bring SNW to the airwaves. It's taken SIX YEARS to bring SFA to air.

We've just been through a six-month writer's/actor's strike. This is not going to happen overnight. This is not like ordering a pizza.

S1E6. Pog's "gaseous anomaly"

But fart jokes are not what i'm talking about.

It's the themes, and HOW the story is told. Again, Prodigy isn't bad. I'm not sitting here saying it's an awful show that needs to go die. I'm saying it would be better presented in a more mature format with more mature themes.

The show is intended for kids.

Kids are into fart jokes. That's a fact.

Kids and adults who THINK like children. :rolleyes:
 
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None of the latest Star Trek shows have done much more than excite people who were already Star Trek fans. None of it has penetrated the wider culture in any meaningful or noticeable way.

That’s been the case since TNG, and I’d suggest that even TNG hasn’t had lasting wider cultural penetration. TOS remains more recognisable. DS9, Voy and Ent have almost no wider recognition; all bled copious numbers of viewers from TNG’s heyday.

I knew several people who enjoyed early Discovery with no prior interest in Trek, but the combination of the toxic fanbase and the splitting of the shows across different services discouraged them from getting further into Trek.

It’s also harder for shows to have such penetration these days, given the sheer glut of available entertainment options. When I was growing up, there was a choice of five TV channels and no internet, so it was relatively easy to stumble across Trek. These days it requires actively seeking it out, which those unfamiliar with the franchise are less likely to do.

None of the modern shows are breakout hits, nor would they reasonably be expected to be. The question is whether they can draw in enough viewers, old and new, to be sustainable. Obviously they’ve been reasonably effective at that, or we wouldn’t have had anywhere near this much modern Trek.
 
None of the modern shows are breakout hits, nor would they reasonably be expected to be. The question is whether they can draw in enough viewers, old and new, to be sustainable. Obviously they’ve been reasonably effective at that, or we wouldn’t have had anywhere near this much modern Trek.

That's the thing. The Powers That Be have ALWAYS had sky high expectations for Star Trek. It's generally done well... Enterprise was still getting solid ratings when it was canned, it just wasn't doing the astronomical ratings they wanted.

The modern Trek shows are all doing well. They all pretty consistently rank in the top streaming shows. I think they do need to have some realistic expectations, and I think overall modern TV is not kind to sci-fi... it's becoming harder to do alot of cost-cutting measures they could in the past. You can no longer paint a dust buster, glue some doodads on it and call it some future device. Everything has to be motion picture-quality, prestige format.

You can no longer throw some curtains up on the set of 10 Forward and be like "Totally the Federation President's Office now..."

Given the short seasons, it's hard to do things like cost-saving bottle episodes... there's not really time for them, and audiences want MOAR SFX! They don't want people sitting around talking about stuff anymore.

The only way Star Trek is going to survive in the long term is a combination of Paramount tempering their expectations, and finding a way to make the shows for less money. A couple of years ago I was hopeful that the answer would lie in AI, but that seems to be increasingly verboten in productions.

EDIT -

I had a thought here about the wider penetration of Star Trek and it is tough. Sci-fi isn't really super "in" right now aside from Star Wars, and that's kind of just its own thing. TV series have it harder than movies... movies can see success by creating a lot of buzz short term and making a splash. A TV show has to keep up an audience.

Again though, Star Trek has done... well in ratings. It's just that Paramount sees it as a golden goose and expects the moon out of it.

As much as i'm not sure I want to actually see this, something Discovery put only the tiniest bit of effort into, is to make something "edgy". One of the things I thought Discovery was originally going to try to do was to be something like a Space Game of Thrones... with everything that it entails. I was thinking something like the Federation getting caught in the middle of the Klingon Civil War, yadda yadda.

I feel like something along that vein COULD bring in new fans, but there's a fine line there as you might alienate the existing fanbase.

New Trek also, in my opinion, suffers from an intangible and abstract issue of "trying too hard". It's hard for me to explain exactly what that means, but it's VERY apparent in Discovery, but Picard also has a healthy dose. I'll try to articulate it the best that I can, there's a few facets. Both shows are intended to be prestige TV, and they very much feel like they are trying very hard to be so. That's not a good thing... they don't feel natural. They're overly melodramatic.

Moreso on the Discovery side, it doesn't do itself any favors by what some would call "pandering". It's another fine line between representation and all that good stuff and "pandering". For the small boost you may get with a small group of fans, you might push away the larger group. At the end of the day, any creator needs to sit down ask themselves "what am I making this for?"... if it's to make a political statement and send a message, then ok. Do that. If it's "make as much money and generate as much viewership as possible", great do that... but those two things aren't necessarily going to work together.

Something as seemingly benign and banal as having a quick Stacey Abrams cameo... I don't mind it, but i'm also on "that side". It sends a message out that may seem like a great idea to some, but you're actively alienating a huge swatch of potential viewers... and then probably calling them "toxic" for not liking it. On the flip, imagine if things were different and Discovery had a different leaning and had like, Rudy Guilliani as President of Earth.

Part of it is a case of lazy writing. Have social commentary. It's part of what this is. But... be a bit more subtle with it? TNG did social commentary, and it never really felt like any sort of real-life, modern day politics were seeping into it.

Make a sci-fi show that everyone, or at least, the largest majority of people possible will like and not potentially be put off by. *OR* don't, make whatever the show the creators want to make with whatever message... but also factor that in when it comes to viewership.
 
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Something as seemingly benign and banal as having a quick Stacey Abrams cameo... I don't mind it, but i'm also on "that side". It sends a message out that may seem like a great idea to some, but you're actively alienating a huge swatch of potential viewers... and then probably calling them "toxic" for not liking it. On the flip, imagine if things were different and Discovery had a different leaning and had like, Rudy Guilliani as President of Earth.
The people who complain about the Stacey Abrams cameo always seem to overlook the fact that Melvin Belli guest starred on TOS. Though not a politician, he was a very well known and very controversial public figure of the time.
Part of it is a case of lazy writing. Have social commentary. It's part of what this is. But... be a bit more subtle with it? TNG did social commentary, and it never really felt like any sort of real-life, modern day politics were seeping into it.
Social commentary has never been particularly subtle on any of the Trek series. When one has knowledge of the political landscape of the times the various Trek shows were made, one can easily see how those politics seeped into the shows. All the way from TOS doing its own Vietnam in A Private Little War to Enterprise doing its own 9/11 and Iraq War with the Xindi storyline.
 
You can no longer throw some curtains up on the set of 10 Forward and be like "Totally the Federation President's Office now..."

They can and do still do this extensively in the modern shows. Most of PIC S03 takes place on reduced, redressed or false sets and DSC/SNW do it all the time.

Part of it is a case of lazy writing. Have social commentary. It's part of what this is. But... be a bit more subtle with it? TNG did social commentary, and it never really felt like any sort of real-life, modern day politics were seeping into it.

:lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

You're new, so you've no idea how many times new folks claim that 20th century Star Trek was subtle, when at many times it was like a sledgehammer to the head.
 
They can and do still do this extensively in the modern shows. Most of PIC S03 takes place on reduced, redressed or false sets and DSC/SNW do it all the time.
Totally. I mean, where do you start? The Section 31 ship in Disco S2 was the Shenzhou's bridge, the bridge of Riker's ship in the Picard S1 finale is Disco's own bridge. The court room for Una's court martial in SNW S2 is the 32nd century Federation HQ's command center. And like you said, with the exception of That Particular Set in Picard's S3 finale, everything in S3 is a set from the previous two seasons.
 
"The High Ground" was banned in the UK.

Totally. I mean, where do you start? The Section 31 ship in Disco S2 was the Shenzhou's bridge, the bridge of Riker's ship in the Picard S1 finale is Disco's own bridge. The court room for Una's court martial in SNW S2 is the 32nd century Federation HQ's command center. And like you said, with the exception of That Particular Set in Picard's S3 finale, everything in S3 is a set from the previous two seasons.

Lower Decks has skewered Trek's tendency to reuse sets.
 
Then I wouldn't be a Star Trek fan.

Which was my point. Thank you.

*glances at ENT Season 3*

What was all that about concurrent politics never bleeding into the narrative of the show in the merrie olde goode dayes of yore?

Hmmm.

ENT Season 3 was inspired by current events, but wasn't obviously in favor of any actual "side"... I didn't watch ENT and think "this is made for Democrats or Republicans." It just... took inspiration from events.

DSC is "Space Democrats"... which is ok for me. I'm an Earth Democrat, so... i'm cool with that. Earth Republicans may not be as cool with that. It's ok to make a show for a particular viewpoint... just be aware that if you're actively alienating a large chunk of the population, you may not get the viewership numbers you were hoping for.
 
just be aware that if you're actively alienating a large chunk of the population,

The only people bothered by an appearance from Stacy Abrams are people I'd rather the franchise ignored to begin with.

Fuck 'em.

If her just showing up was enough to rattle their cage, then they're already assholes.

I'm fine with cutting assholes from the fandom.
 
The only people bothered by an appearance from Stacy Abrams are people I'd rather the franchise ignored to begin with.

That's an excellent way to get your show cancelled due to poor viewership. "We need more viewers. But not those viewers." Inclusion, am I right?

This is becoming a more common thing in media in general...

Media: This isn't for you, cis white male demographic who usually consumes this type of media.
Cis white male: Ok, then we won't watch it.
Media: STOP BEING SO TOXIC AND WATCH!

I like Star Trek. I want to continue to have more Star Trek. The best way to do that is get more viewers, and not go on some political purity crusade.
 
Star Trek is supposed to be inclusive. I don’t agree with trying to keep away any viewership. That doesn’t mean I don’t have to like their beliefs. Like the guy who once told me that they would have cured any “mental illness” around “abnormal sexual preferences” by the 24th century. Ugh.
 
That's an excellent way to get your show cancelled due to poor viewership. "We need more viewers. But not those viewers." Inclusion, am I right?

This is becoming a more common thing in media in general...

Media: This isn't for you, cis white male demographic who usually consumes this type of media.
Cis white male: Ok, then we won't watch it.
Media: STOP BEING SO TOXIC AND WATCH!

I like Star Trek. I want to continue to have more Star Trek. The best way to do that is get more viewers, and not go on some political purity crusade.

The Percentage of people actually bothered by the appearance of Stacy Abrams would be miniscule.

No, they don't matter.

Frankly, those that are bothered enough by her appearance enough to raise any kind of huff, are probably so far to the right that I doubt they're watching much Star Trek to begin with.

Especially Discovery.

These are the same people who complain about "wokeness" and constantly bitch about the representation of LGBTQ+ people.

We don't need those kind of assholes in the fandom.

Say it with me now..... Fuck 'em.
 
We don't need those kind of assholes in the fandom.

Say it with me now..... Fuck 'em.

Again, congratulations. Great way to get poor viewership...

It's usually a bad idea to look at a large segment of the population and potential customers and say "Fuck 'em". It's just bad business.
 
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