Officer Ranks
- Thread starter cwl
- Start date
Usually just commander (for short). Lieutenant commander would be the more formal mode of address, though.
Yep, thats pretty much what the ranks look like. You then also have
Fleet Admiral
Admiral
Vice Admiral
Rear Admiral (Upper Half)
Rear Admiral (Lower half)
The admiral ranks are a little messy though, trek is rarely consistent with it. Of note is that that in the recent Star Trek movie, there is a name plate that says "LT ADM" which hints at a Lieutenant Admiral rank. Its almost like a strange combination of Lieutenant General (the Army/Air Force equivalent of Vice Admiral) and some Admiral rank
Fleet Admiral
Admiral
Vice Admiral
Rear Admiral (Upper Half)
Rear Admiral (Lower half)
The admiral ranks are a little messy though, trek is rarely consistent with it. Of note is that that in the recent Star Trek movie, there is a name plate that says "LT ADM" which hints at a Lieutenant Admiral rank. Its almost like a strange combination of Lieutenant General (the Army/Air Force equivalent of Vice Admiral) and some Admiral rank
Don't forget Fleet Captain :grin:
The ranks of the show basically follow the TrekBBS ranks... or is it the other way around....
The ranks of the show basically follow the TrekBBS ranks... or is it the other way around....
Yes, as matters currently stand, Commodore is the same thing as Rear Admiral (lower half). Essentially, Commodores got pissed off that they didn't get addressed as "Admiral" (and didn't enjoy that sort of pay, either, due to the silly lack-of-prestige issue), so the USN changed Commodore to Rear Admiral. Starfleet apparently did not, at least not in TOS or TMP where Commodore is still used.
The "lower half" and "upper half" things tell us something about how flag ranks work. Basically, they are the lower and upper halves of the assignment list: people at Rear Admiral ranks are waiting to be assigned to a specific flag position, and those at the higher Rear Admiral rank are closer to achieving their goal. Once such a position opens, the person not only gets assigned - he or she also gets promoted, often skipping a rank or two to best match the requirements of the position. Which means that, if Starfleet works the way USN does, then yes, Janeway could have skipped her way to a three-pip flag rank just as easily as attaining a one-pip rank.
OTOH, in the TNG era we never hear of Commodores again, and the next rank up for Captain Picard in "Coming of Age" was said to be Admiral of some sort. So apparently Commodore in the TNG era Starfleet has again been renamed into some sort of Admiral (Van Admiral? Flotilla Admiral? Desk Admiral? Port Admiral? I sort of like the idea of a Lieutenant Admiral)... The change might have happened in the late 2250s already, so that all the Commodores we hear about in the 2260s and 2270s are people promoted before 2258 when the rank was replaced by Lieutenant Admiral.
Also, Fleet Admiral doesn't appear to be a rank in the TNG era. Every time we hear that title, it is carried by a person wearing the three pips of a Vice Admiral... So perhaps TNG era Starfleet uses "Fleet Admiral" to denote a position (i.e. any Admiral who is currently in command of a Fleet), while the five-pip flag rank is called something else, such as Grand Admiral.
To be sure, we never heard "Fleet Admiral" used as a rank in the TOS or TOS movie eras, either.
As for Fleet Captain, this rank was only mentioned once in Star Trek, in "The Menagerie". It referred to a person who later in the show was addressed as Captain Pike and who wore no insignia. We might say that this rank is in Starfleet use even though modern navies don't have it, or a slot for it. Or we might say that the rank doesn't really exist, but is merely an alternate name for Captain, the rank worn by Kirk in that episode.
Certainly there'd be some formal requirement for a more specific name for that rank, because it can easily get confused with the position of captain, the person who commands a ship.
Timo Saloniemi
The "lower half" and "upper half" things tell us something about how flag ranks work. Basically, they are the lower and upper halves of the assignment list: people at Rear Admiral ranks are waiting to be assigned to a specific flag position, and those at the higher Rear Admiral rank are closer to achieving their goal. Once such a position opens, the person not only gets assigned - he or she also gets promoted, often skipping a rank or two to best match the requirements of the position. Which means that, if Starfleet works the way USN does, then yes, Janeway could have skipped her way to a three-pip flag rank just as easily as attaining a one-pip rank.
OTOH, in the TNG era we never hear of Commodores again, and the next rank up for Captain Picard in "Coming of Age" was said to be Admiral of some sort. So apparently Commodore in the TNG era Starfleet has again been renamed into some sort of Admiral (Van Admiral? Flotilla Admiral? Desk Admiral? Port Admiral? I sort of like the idea of a Lieutenant Admiral)... The change might have happened in the late 2250s already, so that all the Commodores we hear about in the 2260s and 2270s are people promoted before 2258 when the rank was replaced by Lieutenant Admiral.
Also, Fleet Admiral doesn't appear to be a rank in the TNG era. Every time we hear that title, it is carried by a person wearing the three pips of a Vice Admiral... So perhaps TNG era Starfleet uses "Fleet Admiral" to denote a position (i.e. any Admiral who is currently in command of a Fleet), while the five-pip flag rank is called something else, such as Grand Admiral.
To be sure, we never heard "Fleet Admiral" used as a rank in the TOS or TOS movie eras, either.
As for Fleet Captain, this rank was only mentioned once in Star Trek, in "The Menagerie". It referred to a person who later in the show was addressed as Captain Pike and who wore no insignia. We might say that this rank is in Starfleet use even though modern navies don't have it, or a slot for it. Or we might say that the rank doesn't really exist, but is merely an alternate name for Captain, the rank worn by Kirk in that episode.
Certainly there'd be some formal requirement for a more specific name for that rank, because it can easily get confused with the position of captain, the person who commands a ship.
Timo Saloniemi
You are forgetting Fleet Captain Lord Garth in Whom Gods Destroy
Nope, there was no reference to Fleet Captain Garth in that episode (and it's LORD Garth to you in any case! ). Instead, there were two mentions of Garth being a "Starship Fleet Captain". Which to me suggests that our heroes were reminding Garth of him being a captain in the starship fleet, with all the associated privileges and duties, as opposed to being a captain in some lesser position.
Timo Saloniemi
). Instead, there were two mentions of Garth being a "Starship Fleet Captain". Which to me suggests that our heroes were reminding Garth of him being a captain in the starship fleet, with all the associated privileges and duties, as opposed to being a captain in some lesser position.Timo Saloniemi
Actually it was to avoid confusion between the position of Commodore (usually an O-6 Captain) and the O-7 rank flag rank. However, they don't seem to have that much trouble with the rank and position of Captain.
That is not how flag ranks work in the USN. The "halves" have nothing to do with assignment, they are remnants of the time (1899-1981) when the navy had no one-star rank, but half of the rear admirals got one-star pay, and the other half got two-star pay. The two "halves" are nowhere near equal, there are currently about 67 "upper" and 111 "lower." The terms are still used because nobody came up with anything better.
One- and two-star flag officers are assigned according to the requirements of the service. There are few who serve at sea today, but the commander of a carrier strike group is usually a RDML, though they may get a second star while in the job. Three- and four-star ranks go with specific jobs and have a much more involved Senate confirmation process. Skipping a flag rank has been quite rare in the post-WW2 navy, but is does happen occasionally. Admiral Stavridis, recently nominated to be Commander, USEUCOM, went from one star to the three-star positon of Senior Military Assistant to the Secretary of Defense in 2004.
Though McCoy did mention expecting a "fleet admiral" when he attended the formal dinner in "Space Seed."
--Justin
Like that junior officer, Mr. Spock.....
Quinn wanted Picard to have the rank of admiral if he took the transfer to Starfleet Academy, but that doesn't mean it's the next chronological promotion for Picard. Just a higher one. The term Branch Admiral was used in one ep for another character with three pips, and the only source I know that made it an official rank was FASA's RPG. Branch Admirals were specialists with years of experience in particular branchs of the service, and presumably the FASA writers thought that McCoy was such an admiral in the medical branch.
I tend to go with "branch admiral" myself for one-pip admirals. Not canon, of course, but I think most branch admirals come from the operations and sciences divisions.
Commodores, IMO, were more senior captains than junior admirals and could either command a single vessel (Commodore Decker) or take charge of a small taskforce of ships (Commodore Wesley), with some being placed in command of starbases (Commodores Stone and Mendez).
Personally, I liked the idea of a fleet captain as being a special administrative grade in TOS between commodore and captain with three full stripes on the sleeves...
Commodores, IMO, were more senior captains than junior admirals and could either command a single vessel (Commodore Decker) or take charge of a small taskforce of ships (Commodore Wesley), with some being placed in command of starbases (Commodores Stone and Mendez).
Personally, I liked the idea of a fleet captain as being a special administrative grade in TOS between commodore and captain with three full stripes on the sleeves...
In Star Trek is Fleet Captain a temporary position given to senior Captains during fleet operations or a permanent rank?
If it's a permanent rank, what assignments, starship command or a staff position would Fleet Captains recieve?
James
If it's a permanent rank, what assignments, starship command or a staff position would Fleet Captains recieve?
James
That's the million dollar question. It has been used an honorific outside the U.S. Navy in real life, IIRC.
I personally prefer to think of a fleet captain as a permanant rank awarded to a select number of special individuals. A fleet captain may simply be the senior field officer in the absence of a commodore or an admiral, IMO.
I personally prefer to think of a fleet captain as a permanant rank awarded to a select number of special individuals. A fleet captain may simply be the senior field officer in the absence of a commodore or an admiral, IMO.
I don't think 'fleet captain' is a separate rank. Starfleet has more than enough ranks as it is. It's probably just a fancy way of saying Captain.
Personally, going somewhat with C. E. 's comments, I like the notion that a fleet captain is an intermediate rank between captain and commodore, tasked with commanding a task force of ships while a commodore might command a base or a larger group of ships. As a separate rank, it could easily fit into all of the existing insignia schemes:
TOS: three solid stripes
Movies: As captain, but with extra "arrows" to the left and right of the enclosed bars.
Modern era (TNG+): five pips. Commodore would be one boxed pip.
FASA suggested that fleet captain was a rank above commodore, which was directly above captain, and that fleet captains were assigned to assist in the development of new core classes like the Galaxy class. It was something of a rare rank, and had five gold pips while commodore had five silver pips (lower classes in the early TNG era had fewer numbers of silver pips, with gold being reserved for flag ranks).
The FASA insignia for Branch Admiral consisted of a white shoulder board, similar to the triangular S1 admiral's insignias, with a triangle surrounded by silver oak leaves. The color of the triangle represented the branch the admiral served: silver for the Starfleet Inspector General, green for medical, gold for security and red for engineering.
TOS: three solid stripes
Movies: As captain, but with extra "arrows" to the left and right of the enclosed bars.
Modern era (TNG+): five pips. Commodore would be one boxed pip.
FASA suggested that fleet captain was a rank above commodore, which was directly above captain, and that fleet captains were assigned to assist in the development of new core classes like the Galaxy class. It was something of a rare rank, and had five gold pips while commodore had five silver pips (lower classes in the early TNG era had fewer numbers of silver pips, with gold being reserved for flag ranks).
The FASA insignia for Branch Admiral consisted of a white shoulder board, similar to the triangular S1 admiral's insignias, with a triangle surrounded by silver oak leaves. The color of the triangle represented the branch the admiral served: silver for the Starfleet Inspector General, green for medical, gold for security and red for engineering.
