Offended by Christmas???
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.We could all learn much from this. I don't normally agree with Ben Stein, but he is right about this.
Totally... that was remarkably well-stated.
I don't know. I tend to disregard what people who seem to advocate hitting children have to say in the rest of their pamphlet.
Bit late to the topic... but I have to say I'm baffled by this whole phenomenon.
I shouldn't generalise, but the US in my views is pretty religious. Christian religious, on the whole. Ranging from nut jobs to.. not so nut jobby. But mostly religious as countries go. Yet they say "Happy Holidays" in some weirdly tolerant way.
The UK, not really that religious, is Christmas to the fucking max, and if you don't like it you're odd, sad, scrooge... there's no acceptance of different faiths or non-believers (largely because there is a disconnect between what they're doing and what they believe, I must admit).
I am an athiest. I don't celebrate Christmas. But I get so fed up with it being shoved down my throat over the course of a month or two and being treated like there's something wrong with me that I do get quite angry by the end of it all (by quite, I mean a lot). ANd very defensive.
So maybe the Americans got something right on this... amazingly. But I'm surprised it's the US that does this watered down 'Holidays' thing of all places.
I shouldn't generalise, but the US in my views is pretty religious. Christian religious, on the whole. Ranging from nut jobs to.. not so nut jobby. But mostly religious as countries go. Yet they say "Happy Holidays" in some weirdly tolerant way.
The UK, not really that religious, is Christmas to the fucking max, and if you don't like it you're odd, sad, scrooge... there's no acceptance of different faiths or non-believers (largely because there is a disconnect between what they're doing and what they believe, I must admit).
I am an athiest. I don't celebrate Christmas. But I get so fed up with it being shoved down my throat over the course of a month or two and being treated like there's something wrong with me that I do get quite angry by the end of it all (by quite, I mean a lot). ANd very defensive.
So maybe the Americans got something right on this... amazingly. But I'm surprised it's the US that does this watered down 'Holidays' thing of all places.
I also ignore texts that are written completely in BOLD, especially when the author is a known nutcase (Ben Stein, not Sector 7).
The only thing one can learn from Ben Stein is how to be a colossal douche.
(I'm not in need of remedial training to maintain credentialing, thanks very much).
(I'm not in need of remedial training to maintain credentialing, thanks very much).
Well, full disclosure: I'm both deeply religious and devoutly Christian, married to a minister. Politically, I tend to be a tad left of center, and I sometimes agree with Republicans although I rarely vote for them.
I actually miss the multi-cultural holidays of my school days (I'm 43). I grew up in the only minority family in the whole town (pop. 17,000 or so at the time). There was a small Jewish population (two temples), a larger Catholic community, and a slight majority Protestant. In December, we learned Chanukah and Christmas (both secular and religious) songs. In the Spring, we commemorated Easter and Passover. I still remember all the words to Havah Nagilah (although I've never gotten around to googling a translation). Whatever the calendar said, that's the greeting we used: Happy Chanukah, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
In one generation, it seems, we've swung hard to the opposite end: don't acknowledge anyone's religion. I found it sad that my son could recite the principles of Kwanzaa (a wholly made up "holiday"), yet thought that Chanukah involved a rescue by a superhero. (I'm not kidding: "And then the CHANUKAH came and SAVED them!")
There's a richness that my kids are missing, and I think it's sad. This year, our babysitter taught the kids how to play the Dreidel game, and we had a terrific discussion about The Miracle That Happened There. I don't mind being wished Happy Holidays -- because it reminds me of the time when ALL December holidays were important, not just "How Can Retailers Separate Me From My Money-mas" that dominates today.
I actually miss the multi-cultural holidays of my school days (I'm 43). I grew up in the only minority family in the whole town (pop. 17,000 or so at the time). There was a small Jewish population (two temples), a larger Catholic community, and a slight majority Protestant. In December, we learned Chanukah and Christmas (both secular and religious) songs. In the Spring, we commemorated Easter and Passover. I still remember all the words to Havah Nagilah (although I've never gotten around to googling a translation). Whatever the calendar said, that's the greeting we used: Happy Chanukah, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
In one generation, it seems, we've swung hard to the opposite end: don't acknowledge anyone's religion. I found it sad that my son could recite the principles of Kwanzaa (a wholly made up "holiday"), yet thought that Chanukah involved a rescue by a superhero. (I'm not kidding: "And then the CHANUKAH came and SAVED them!")
There's a richness that my kids are missing, and I think it's sad. This year, our babysitter taught the kids how to play the Dreidel game, and we had a terrific discussion about The Miracle That Happened There. I don't mind being wished Happy Holidays -- because it reminds me of the time when ALL December holidays were important, not just "How Can Retailers Separate Me From My Money-mas" that dominates today.
HoHoHocutus of Bored;4617180 Most Muslims I know wouldn't care about being wished a Merry Christmas and would take it in the spirit it was given if it was offered genuinely and not like [B said:
Umm... it was meant as a joke... that's why I not only put a devil smiley after it, but I began the next part of the post with "In all seriousness". But thanks for the kind words!
In some posts we have Moderators asking for jokes.
Most jokes are welcomed.
Except one.
THE ONE has been attacked for his joke.
Get over yourselves and stop being hypocritical.
"C'mon people we need jokes. Except yours... you're a monster for giving us a joke."
Hypocrisy seems to be rampant in this thread.
It helps when a joke is funny.
It's funny you bring up a quote from that former Beatle turned serial Yoko Ono cuddler - he's the perfect example of whitey (the FBI) hating on whitey (Lennon).
Even whitey doesn't like whitey!
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.We could all learn much from this. I don't normally agree with Ben Stein, but he is right about this.
My confession: I am a Hindu, and every ancestor in recent history was a Hindu. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful, lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees. I don’t feel threatened, I don’t feel discriminated against.
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say “Merry Christmas” to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me that there are manger scenes everywhere in private and public spaces. If people want to celebrate their faith, that’s just as fine with me as any other harmless expression of faith.
I don’t like being obligated by schools to participate in a holiday that’s not mine, and I don’t think most Christians have any idea what that feels like. I think some people who believe in god have been pushing people around for so long that they can’t imagine other people not celebrating Christmas. I have no idea where the concept came from, that everyone in America celebrates Christmas. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that saying “Happy Holidays” in any way diminishes the meaning of Christmas? I guess that’s a sign that I’m a godless anti-American, too. But there are a lot of us wondering why people are so worked up over something that’s basically just a marketing strategy created by businesses.
In light of all the complaining that’s going on, this is a little different. This is not intended to be insulting; it’s not about taking away from Christmas, it’s intended to get you thinking. The world isn’t going to hell and ye olde days weren’t better than what we have now. Saying “Happy Holidays” isn’t causing children to go without consciences, and religion doesn’t equal morality.
Funny how simple it is for people to link things they don’t like to our most serious problems. Funny how in a country where Christmas is a national holiday, where Christmas trees are called Christmas trees, where manger scenes are common and schoolchildren get weeks off to celebrate Christmas, people still claim Christmas is under attack.
Funny how we can spend so much energy getting upset about two words said to us (“Happy Holidays”) rather than recognizing the spirit they’re said in, and returning it. Funny how a season of goodwill can turn into a season of resentment for some. Funny how the people who complain about having their religion under attack really have no idea what it’s like for those who have truly been persecuted throughout history.
Sorry for the long, awkward response. I’m not trying to make light of anyone’s feelings but I find some of the posts here truly offensive and it does upset me. Many Christians (or even atheists from a Christian background) have no idea what it can feel like during this time of year for the rest of us. I love Christmas but I hate that it has this shadow of cynicism and resentment over it for no reason. The next time you get worked up over something this trivial (and non-existent), please take a moment and count all the wonderful people and privileges in your life. Chances are you have quite a few.
My best regards, honestly and respectfully,
Kes
Nobody likes a show-off Kestra
A
Amaris
Guest
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.We could all learn much from this. I don't normally agree with Ben Stein, but he is right about this.
Totally... that was remarkably well-stated.
Packs of lies peddled by nutcases often are. For starters, Dr. Spock's son did not kill himself.
^
Doesn't change the fact that I agree with everything Ben said.
Doesn't change the fact that I agree with everything Ben said.
You agree that Dr Spock's son committed suicide? That our children have no conscience?
From Sector 7 (I'm just cutting out the quote tags here so the sub-quotes don't get eliminated)
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
Hardly anyone is bothered by them being called Christmas trees either. So what? Does Ben want a cookie? Turning very rare corporate decisions in the interest of profitability based on what they perceive the public wants, or government decisions based on real or imagined First Amendment violations into some kind of persecution of Christians is absurd. You'd think someone was coming into Christian homes and confiscating their Christmas trees the way some people carry on about it.
And if Ben wants to get technical, what the modern Christmas trees are, from an originalist sense, are "Yule Trees," although the veneration and decoration of evergreen trees (and trees in general) predates Christianity. The Egyptians decorated palm trees since they had no evergreens. The Greeks decorated evergreens to worship Adonia. Pre-Christian Romans decorated evergreens with candles to symbolize the sun god and ornaments of the god Bacchus. Christians appropriated decorating evergreens from Celtic Druids and incorporated them into the Christmas holiday. German Christians in the 16th century cut down an evergreen tree and brought them into their home to celebrate the feast of Adam and Eve on Dec. 24th, calling them "Paradise Trees." They brought that tradition to America around 1700 but it didn't really catch on en masse until the mid-19th century.
Once again, the only time the practice was ever actually in danger was when Christians like the Puritans in America or in England under Cromwell tried to stamp it out as anti-Christian. Some Christians cite(d) Jeremiah 10:2-4 as saying Christmas trees are sinful and condemned it as idolatry:
KJV - "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen.... For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
That's great, and as it should be. Again, I don't know anyone who is actually offended by being genuinely wished a Merry Christmas in good spirit. However, that kind, friendly sentiment of togetherness doesn't go both ways if you also have a problem with people saying Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings, which is the only thing I've ever seen someone (Christians) actually get upset by.
As long as anyone who wants to participate are acknowledged, then that's fine. But if you start to exclusively appear to endorse one religion over another on public property it could be challenged on First Amendment grounds. Personally, I wouldn't really care and would rather focus on more serious intrusions of religion into matters of government, but it's on solid legal ground.
Plus, not everyone is as accepting of the Menorah as they are of what they see as Christian symbols:
In 2005, the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport removed all of its Christmas trees in the middle of the night rather than allow a rabbi to put up a menorah near the largest tree display.[48] Officials feared that one display would open the door for other religious displays,[48] and, in 2006, they opted to display a grove of birches in polyethylene terephthalate snow rather than religious symbols or Christmas trees.[48]
Unless you're living in 2nd century Rome or somewhere like East Timor where Christians are actually being persecuted for their beliefs in modern times, I find the notion of comparing the plight of the Christian majority to that of Jews being pushed around to be laughable at best and offensive at worst. I think Ben should really shut up about Christian persecution and Christians should be grateful to live in a country where they haven't actually had to suffer any real persecution as Jews have.
I have no idea where that came from either, except for the rampant imagination of Christians and ultra-conservatives like Ben Stein, since I know of no one who has claimed that this is an atheistic country. Quite the opposite in fact.
We're not supposed to endorse one religion over any other, according the the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, but the same amendment specifically protects religious freedom as well. Regardless, we still do endorse Christianity and Abrahamic religions more than others with things like In God We Trust on our money, "... one nation under God..." in the pledge (added to repel the commies because saying God works on communists like saying Rumpelstiltskin, apparently), Christmas as a national holiday, swearing on Bibles, and Christian symbolism everywhere.
Atheism in America on the other hand:
More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.
Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.
When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.
Link
Yep, it's really an atheistic country there. I'm feeling the love.
Again, it came from your own warped mind, Ben. Who the hell is telling you to worship celebrities? Is someone clamping your eyes open 'Clockwork Orange'-style and playing Kardashians episodes on a continuous loop?
Also, who is inhibiting anyone's right to worship God as they understand him? Did I miss the hundreds of thousands of houses of worship in this country being shut down by the godless (except when he's Muslim or in Jeremiah Wright's church and it can be used against him) Obama administration? Are people coming into your homes and beating you with nightsticks if you pray at dinner?
I especially find it amusing that Ben Stein, a man who has never shied away from the public spotlight and has parlayed his mid-level name recognition into game shows and movie and television appearances galore, is asking such an ironic question as "Where did these celebrities comes from?" Physician, heal thyself. Do the world a favor and set the example by removing yourself from the public eye, Ben.
About the only thing right in all that is that it's not funny. Where to begin...
First off, the name is Madalyn Murray O'Hair. If you're going to use the brutal kidnapping, torture, mutilation, and murder of someone (and her son and granddaughter too, BTW - very tasteful) as a punchline, at least spell their name correctly. They weren't murdered over atheism or prayer in schools, they were murdered for greed and revenge. They were kidnapped by a former employee and his accomplices who had been caught stealing $54,000 from their organization and was subsequently criticized in their paper, angering him. He tortured them and forced them to withdraw $600,000 from their account, then cut them up into little pieces and buried them in the desert along with one of his accomplice who he had also mutilated and killed. Which makes Ben a sick, sadistic, bigoted piece of shit for using them as an example against atheism.
And when exactly did prayer stop terrorism, murder, robbery, school shootings, etc? There were school killings and bombings long before forced prayer in class was banned. The idea that prayer in school can stop terrorism, murder, kidnapping, or robbery is just laughable. By that idiotic rational no one who prays should ever be the victim of a crime.
If I were to apply Ben's insane logic in reverse, given how national violent and property crime rates are the lowest they've been since the mid-60s when prayer in schools was allowed, I would have to conclude that outlawing forced school prayer drastically reduces crime. Fun with statistics and leaps of logic!
By the way, you can still pray on your own in class any time you want (or in prayer groups during breaks, or at home, or at church), the teacher just can't force you to do it, except at private or religious schools. So, the question becomes why are so many good Christian children failing to pray on their own and exposing us to the horrors of terrorism, murder, kidnapping, and robbery according to BenLogic? C'mon, Christian kids, ask not what your country can do for you and all that.
Moving on, as if exploiting the brutal murders of a woman, her son, and her granddaughter weren't enough, Ben now moves on to exploiting the suicide of Dr. Spock's son because Dr. Spock had the nerve to suggest that maybe spanking wasn't the best way to raise children. What this has to do with Christmas, I don't know, but we'll let Ben go; he's rolling.
I'm sure the fact that one of them killed themselves will come as a great shock to Dr. Spock's two sons, who are both alive and healthy. What this sickening anecdote is probably referring to is the fact that Dr. Spock's grandson Peter committed suicide. But seeing as how he was 22-years-old at the time and schizophrenic, how you conclude that poor childhood discipline on the part of his grandfather who didn't raise him was involved is beyond me. But hey, making light of the suicide of a mentally ill young man to get back at his grandfather whose worst crime was not advocating spanking is okay when lecturing people on morality according to Ben Stein, I guess.
If you truly reap what you sow, Ben, I'd be worried about facing the big man upstairs with your mockery of victims of murder and suicide by mental illness.
Wait, didn't this lewd, crude, vulgar, and obscene article by Stein get spread like wildfire via email? He is completely lacking in self-awareness. Oh, wait, he thinks this is a positive message. My bad.
Stein, I'm laughing at the superior intellect.
No, Stein's a bigoted, demented piece of shit. But hey, if you're cool with exploiting people's brutal murders, mental illness, and suicides to make a point and try to look morally superior while doing so, that's your business. Doesn't seem very Christ-like to me, though.
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
Hardly anyone is bothered by them being called Christmas trees either. So what? Does Ben want a cookie? Turning very rare corporate decisions in the interest of profitability based on what they perceive the public wants, or government decisions based on real or imagined First Amendment violations into some kind of persecution of Christians is absurd. You'd think someone was coming into Christian homes and confiscating their Christmas trees the way some people carry on about it.
And if Ben wants to get technical, what the modern Christmas trees are, from an originalist sense, are "Yule Trees," although the veneration and decoration of evergreen trees (and trees in general) predates Christianity. The Egyptians decorated palm trees since they had no evergreens. The Greeks decorated evergreens to worship Adonia. Pre-Christian Romans decorated evergreens with candles to symbolize the sun god and ornaments of the god Bacchus. Christians appropriated decorating evergreens from Celtic Druids and incorporated them into the Christmas holiday. German Christians in the 16th century cut down an evergreen tree and brought them into their home to celebrate the feast of Adam and Eve on Dec. 24th, calling them "Paradise Trees." They brought that tradition to America around 1700 but it didn't really catch on en masse until the mid-19th century.
Once again, the only time the practice was ever actually in danger was when Christians like the Puritans in America or in England under Cromwell tried to stamp it out as anti-Christian. Some Christians cite(d) Jeremiah 10:2-4 as saying Christmas trees are sinful and condemned it as idolatry:
KJV - "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen.... For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
That's great, and as it should be. Again, I don't know anyone who is actually offended by being genuinely wished a Merry Christmas in good spirit. However, that kind, friendly sentiment of togetherness doesn't go both ways if you also have a problem with people saying Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings, which is the only thing I've ever seen someone (Christians) actually get upset by.
As long as anyone who wants to participate are acknowledged, then that's fine. But if you start to exclusively appear to endorse one religion over another on public property it could be challenged on First Amendment grounds. Personally, I wouldn't really care and would rather focus on more serious intrusions of religion into matters of government, but it's on solid legal ground.
Plus, not everyone is as accepting of the Menorah as they are of what they see as Christian symbols:
In 2005, the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport removed all of its Christmas trees in the middle of the night rather than allow a rabbi to put up a menorah near the largest tree display.[48] Officials feared that one display would open the door for other religious displays,[48] and, in 2006, they opted to display a grove of birches in polyethylene terephthalate snow rather than religious symbols or Christmas trees.[48]
Unless you're living in 2nd century Rome or somewhere like East Timor where Christians are actually being persecuted for their beliefs in modern times, I find the notion of comparing the plight of the Christian majority to that of Jews being pushed around to be laughable at best and offensive at worst. I think Ben should really shut up about Christian persecution and Christians should be grateful to live in a country where they haven't actually had to suffer any real persecution as Jews have.
I have no idea where that came from either, except for the rampant imagination of Christians and ultra-conservatives like Ben Stein, since I know of no one who has claimed that this is an atheistic country. Quite the opposite in fact.
We're not supposed to endorse one religion over any other, according the the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, but the same amendment specifically protects religious freedom as well. Regardless, we still do endorse Christianity and Abrahamic religions more than others with things like In God We Trust on our money, "... one nation under God..." in the pledge (added to repel the commies because saying God works on communists like saying Rumpelstiltskin, apparently), Christmas as a national holiday, swearing on Bibles, and Christian symbolism everywhere.
Atheism in America on the other hand:
More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.
Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.
When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.
Link
Yep, it's really an atheistic country there. I'm feeling the love.
Again, it came from your own warped mind, Ben. Who the hell is telling you to worship celebrities? Is someone clamping your eyes open 'Clockwork Orange'-style and playing Kardashians episodes on a continuous loop?
Also, who is inhibiting anyone's right to worship God as they understand him? Did I miss the hundreds of thousands of houses of worship in this country being shut down by the godless (except when he's Muslim or in Jeremiah Wright's church and it can be used against him) Obama administration? Are people coming into your homes and beating you with nightsticks if you pray at dinner?
I especially find it amusing that Ben Stein, a man who has never shied away from the public spotlight and has parlayed his mid-level name recognition into game shows and movie and television appearances galore, is asking such an ironic question as "Where did these celebrities comes from?" Physician, heal thyself. Do the world a favor and set the example by removing yourself from the public eye, Ben.
About the only thing right in all that is that it's not funny. Where to begin...
First off, the name is Madalyn Murray O'Hair. If you're going to use the brutal kidnapping, torture, mutilation, and murder of someone (and her son and granddaughter too, BTW - very tasteful) as a punchline, at least spell their name correctly. They weren't murdered over atheism or prayer in schools, they were murdered for greed and revenge. They were kidnapped by a former employee and his accomplices who had been caught stealing $54,000 from their organization and was subsequently criticized in their paper, angering him. He tortured them and forced them to withdraw $600,000 from their account, then cut them up into little pieces and buried them in the desert along with one of his accomplice who he had also mutilated and killed. Which makes Ben a sick, sadistic, bigoted piece of shit for using them as an example against atheism.
And when exactly did prayer stop terrorism, murder, robbery, school shootings, etc? There were school killings and bombings long before forced prayer in class was banned. The idea that prayer in school can stop terrorism, murder, kidnapping, or robbery is just laughable. By that idiotic rational no one who prays should ever be the victim of a crime.
If I were to apply Ben's insane logic in reverse, given how national violent and property crime rates are the lowest they've been since the mid-60s when prayer in schools was allowed, I would have to conclude that outlawing forced school prayer drastically reduces crime. Fun with statistics and leaps of logic!
By the way, you can still pray on your own in class any time you want (or in prayer groups during breaks, or at home, or at church), the teacher just can't force you to do it, except at private or religious schools. So, the question becomes why are so many good Christian children failing to pray on their own and exposing us to the horrors of terrorism, murder, kidnapping, and robbery according to BenLogic? C'mon, Christian kids, ask not what your country can do for you and all that.
Moving on, as if exploiting the brutal murders of a woman, her son, and her granddaughter weren't enough, Ben now moves on to exploiting the suicide of Dr. Spock's son because Dr. Spock had the nerve to suggest that maybe spanking wasn't the best way to raise children. What this has to do with Christmas, I don't know, but we'll let Ben go; he's rolling.
I'm sure the fact that one of them killed themselves will come as a great shock to Dr. Spock's two sons, who are both alive and healthy. What this sickening anecdote is probably referring to is the fact that Dr. Spock's grandson Peter committed suicide. But seeing as how he was 22-years-old at the time and schizophrenic, how you conclude that poor childhood discipline on the part of his grandfather who didn't raise him was involved is beyond me. But hey, making light of the suicide of a mentally ill young man to get back at his grandfather whose worst crime was not advocating spanking is okay when lecturing people on morality according to Ben Stein, I guess.
If you truly reap what you sow, Ben, I'd be worried about facing the big man upstairs with your mockery of victims of murder and suicide by mental illness.
Wait, didn't this lewd, crude, vulgar, and obscene article by Stein get spread like wildfire via email? He is completely lacking in self-awareness. Oh, wait, he thinks this is a positive message. My bad.
Stein, I'm laughing at the superior intellect.
Sector 7 said:We could all learn much from this. I don't normally agree with Ben Stein, but he is right about this.
No, Stein's a bigoted, demented piece of shit. But hey, if you're cool with exploiting people's brutal murders, mental illness, and suicides to make a point and try to look morally superior while doing so, that's your business. Doesn't seem very Christ-like to me, though.
It was Dr Spock's grandson, who suffered from schizophrenia, who committed suicide. (edited to add - Locutus of Bored has already explained this in greater detail)
My father, who was a kind and gentle man, who had nothing bad to say about anyone except politicians and football umpires, who had a very strong moral compass, and who went off to fight in WW2 when he was only 17, was bought up by parents who didn't spank. This was unusual as my father was born in 1927.
My father, who was a kind and gentle man, who had nothing bad to say about anyone except politicians and football umpires, who had a very strong moral compass, and who went off to fight in WW2 when he was only 17, was bought up by parents who didn't spank. This was unusual as my father was born in 1927.
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