O'Brien out, Leno back in?
- Thread starter Professor Zoom
- Start date
Yeah. I prefered the way he ended his penultimate show, singing lyrics to his closing credits theme song. "Greatest audience in show business!"
BTW, if Conan ends up on another network, I hope that he's been able to hang onto the rights to those theme songs. They're probably the most awesome theme songs in talk show history. (Well, Craig Ferguson has a pretty cool one too.)
He's Jay Freakin' Leno. All he would have had to do is threaten to go to another network once his contract is up, and they would have rolled right over for him -- just like they did when the time came.
But even if we accepted your premise, that Jay didn't have sufficient clout to fight the pressure to make that promise to hand over The Tonight Show to Conan -- then that means that he should have kept his promise and not broken it this year!
It's that simple. You shouldn't make promises you have no intention of keeping, and you should keep the promises you make.
Period.
Once you retire the network has no say in what you do or do not do.
^ Unless it was the network who made you retire in the first place, yes?
No. He agreed to step away in 2004. That means he retired. You're acting like he was forced into taking the 10pm slot last year. He wasn't. He chose to do it. He could've walked away from NBC last May and that would've been it. If he didn't want to do The Tonight Show 2.0 he wouldn't have had to because his new contract was for that 10pm show. Entertainment contracts on this level don't have a "do whatever the fuck the network tells you to do" clause. The network couldn't force him to do anything he didn't want to do.
Why do you think Conan is getting 32 million? Because the network violated the terms of his contract. If this was all proper then Conan wouldn't be getting squat, that's the entire point of this drama. The network can't make you do anything it wants. The talent has to agree to it. It isn't slavery.
You know, those segments are one of the reasons I find Leno so very lame. The material there is the kind of stuff you can find online in abundance. The few times I tuned in to Jay's show during this whole mess, I thought everything I saw was astoundingly un-funny. Even his jabs at NBC fell completely flat. And what purpose does the guy in the band serve besides grunting in agreement and repeating random words after Jay? Seriously, I have no interest in EVER watching this show again if this last week has been standard fare.
I've been sacrificing sleep these last two weeks in order to stay up and watch Conan...and I can definitely say that it was so worth it. I just wish I had been watching MORE over the last 7 months.
It's so wrong that Conan was the one who got hosed in all this because HE was the one that stood up for the tradition of The Tonight Show. Jay should have realized the day would come he'd have to retire. If he didn't want to accept it 5 years ago when he agreed to hand over the show to Conan he should have let Conan know THEN. They could have avoided this whole messy thing and let Conan start his own 11:30 show on a different network back then instead of giving it to him then taking it back. Kimmel had it right when he reamed Jay during his 10 at 10 segment.
One good thing for me to come out of this, though, is I've also discovered Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. He's not that bad really. Yes, his monologues are painful, but his skits are awesome. Head swap as mentioned above is great. Robert is bothered is pretty good too. But I think the best thing he's done is this:
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/blogs/2010/01/neil-young-sings-pants-on-the-ground/
spot on impression of Neil Young singing the ridiculous pants on the ground song without ONCE breaking character. His other Neil Young song, the Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme, is pretty good too. I can see good things coming for Fallon if he can smooth out his monologues and tendency to be a little...too happy at times.
It's so wrong that Conan was the one who got hosed in all this because HE was the one that stood up for the tradition of The Tonight Show. Jay should have realized the day would come he'd have to retire. If he didn't want to accept it 5 years ago when he agreed to hand over the show to Conan he should have let Conan know THEN. They could have avoided this whole messy thing and let Conan start his own 11:30 show on a different network back then instead of giving it to him then taking it back. Kimmel had it right when he reamed Jay during his 10 at 10 segment.
One good thing for me to come out of this, though, is I've also discovered Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. He's not that bad really. Yes, his monologues are painful, but his skits are awesome. Head swap as mentioned above is great. Robert is bothered is pretty good too. But I think the best thing he's done is this:
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/blogs/2010/01/neil-young-sings-pants-on-the-ground/
spot on impression of Neil Young singing the ridiculous pants on the ground song without ONCE breaking character. His other Neil Young song, the Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme, is pretty good too. I can see good things coming for Fallon if he can smooth out his monologues and tendency to be a little...too happy at times.
Jay Leno when NBC came and said "look, Conan's contract is coming up for renewal and we're afraid he may look to bolt to another network for an earlier show without knowing if or when he'll take over the Tonight Show. We have this idea to put into place that you'll step down 5 years later and Conan will take over. Now at that point Jay Leno could have said "Look, I have no interest in retiring from the talk show business. I want to remain as the host of the Tonight Show and seen what NBC said and if they said we still want to put Conan in place then Jay could have said ok, well I'm going to go to another network." He didn't. He let that contract sit in place for four years before he decided he was going to continue in television and then got NBC to do the Jay Leno show at 10pm.
Conan had no say in that. Conan had already signed his contract under the assumption he was taking over the Tonight Show and that Jay Leno was retiring. That didn't happen. Jay went to 10PM and everyone knew the ratings were going to be bad, people worried as well that if Leno's tonight show audience (or a good portion) stuck with him and watched it at 10PM they probably would be done with a late night talk show and not stick with Conan.
Kind of like how some people watch the 10PM news on their local fox station. Most people don't watch the 10PM news and then switch and watch the 11PM news on another network. Plus Leno's audience skewed older so that usually means go to bed earlier
If Jay had forced NBC's hand 5 years ago then Conan could have made a career decision of his own. He could have said "Ok, Jay's staying... Well I'm not going to renew my contract with NBC and I'm going to look to go to another network." Jay didn't allow him that. He lingered in the shadows and at the 11th hour bust out his future plans which torpedo'd Conan.
This is one of the reasons why I never bought into the Brett Favre mystique and liked the guy. Brett Favre did the same thing to the Packers. Yes he was a very good QB, but year-in and year-out the Packers franchise had no idea if he was going to return. So the Packers went out and used a 1st round pick for Aaron Rodgers and told Favre "Ok, you keep saying you're getting to ready to retire so this is going to be our QB of the future." and Favre was like ok. So they went ahead with that plan which was Favre was going to retire after Rodgers rookie season then he'd become starting QB.
Well Favre decided to return for another year, so then Rodgers continued as a back-up with the idea that he would become the starter following his second season. He was on track to be the starter and then Favre decided to return once again making Rodgers the back-up for his third season with the plan that it was Favre's last season so Rodgers would become a starter for his fourth season.
So Favre retires and then comes off-season, work-outs, training camp etc... but then it starts to filter out "Favre wants to come back" well here's this guy in Aaron Rodgers who's entering his fourth season and expects it to be his first chance to start and Favre suddenly wants to come back 2 or 3 months before the season starts. Well we know what happened then and the Packers traded him to the Jets.
The difference between the Packers and NBC? The Packers finally took a stand and decided to cut ties with their old veteran. NBC tried to have it both ways.
Conan had no say in that. Conan had already signed his contract under the assumption he was taking over the Tonight Show and that Jay Leno was retiring. That didn't happen. Jay went to 10PM and everyone knew the ratings were going to be bad, people worried as well that if Leno's tonight show audience (or a good portion) stuck with him and watched it at 10PM they probably would be done with a late night talk show and not stick with Conan.
Kind of like how some people watch the 10PM news on their local fox station. Most people don't watch the 10PM news and then switch and watch the 11PM news on another network. Plus Leno's audience skewed older so that usually means go to bed earlier
If Jay had forced NBC's hand 5 years ago then Conan could have made a career decision of his own. He could have said "Ok, Jay's staying... Well I'm not going to renew my contract with NBC and I'm going to look to go to another network." Jay didn't allow him that. He lingered in the shadows and at the 11th hour bust out his future plans which torpedo'd Conan.
This is one of the reasons why I never bought into the Brett Favre mystique and liked the guy. Brett Favre did the same thing to the Packers. Yes he was a very good QB, but year-in and year-out the Packers franchise had no idea if he was going to return. So the Packers went out and used a 1st round pick for Aaron Rodgers and told Favre "Ok, you keep saying you're getting to ready to retire so this is going to be our QB of the future." and Favre was like ok. So they went ahead with that plan which was Favre was going to retire after Rodgers rookie season then he'd become starting QB.
Well Favre decided to return for another year, so then Rodgers continued as a back-up with the idea that he would become the starter following his second season. He was on track to be the starter and then Favre decided to return once again making Rodgers the back-up for his third season with the plan that it was Favre's last season so Rodgers would become a starter for his fourth season.
So Favre retires and then comes off-season, work-outs, training camp etc... but then it starts to filter out "Favre wants to come back" well here's this guy in Aaron Rodgers who's entering his fourth season and expects it to be his first chance to start and Favre suddenly wants to come back 2 or 3 months before the season starts. Well we know what happened then and the Packers traded him to the Jets.
The difference between the Packers and NBC? The Packers finally took a stand and decided to cut ties with their old veteran. NBC tried to have it both ways.
And then now he is on a tear with the Vikings
True, but you could carry the talk show analogy further and say Brett Favre with the talent around him on the Vikings both on offense and defense would be like if Jay Leno had gone to another network and gotten U2 to be house band and every night he had the biggest movie/tv stars on the planet as his first two guests and his musical guest was every top artist
Really, I don't see how Leno, NBC or The Tonight Show is going to come out of this looking good.
Nowhere Man
Commodore
He could accepted the fact that he signed a frackin contract and agreed to this, he could have accepted that his ratings sucked and he sucked and bowed out gracefully like Conan did,but shouldn't have had to, he could have been the better man but he wasen't. NBC may be in charge, but he is the star and has some say. I'm sure that he had a hand in this too, he pulled the same shit on Letterman. Conan patiently waited his turn, just like Jay suposedly did with Carson. Jay signed a contract and knew what he was getting into the whole time.
The funny thing is people keep saying "Jay is a nice guy."
Bull hockey.
Nice guys don't do that. Nor do nice guys have "their people" do stuff behind the scenes so *they* can still come out as the nice guy.
Leno sucks. I used to like him. Now? Not so much. He's lost a fan.
Conan is the man.
Bull hockey.
Nice guys don't do that. Nor do nice guys have "their people" do stuff behind the scenes so *they* can still come out as the nice guy.
Leno sucks. I used to like him. Now? Not so much. He's lost a fan.
Conan is the man.
I'm gotta the venom out first: this entire deal has soured me so much on Leno that I right now feel I've never even going to watch his online shorts at Jay Leno's Garage anymore, and that has some quality stuff for a car guy. He's long since stopped being funny for me and I'll never, ever, ever watch his shows again.
That out of the way, I have now seen Conan's final show. Holy shit. What a great ending! It may not have been as hilarious as some of the shows of the last week (Robin Williams appearance being pretty much the maniacal flipped out highpoint) but it was definitely the right way to go.
Anyone saying Conan was upstaged at the last bit I do kind of disagree with. Sure Ferrell was front and center, but Conan shredded that guitar good! And "Freebird" actually wasn't a joke for once.
I started tearing up a bit at Conan's farewell with the message of "Don't be ever cynical". Especially where his voice broke at one point.
Conan has always, and will always be a class act. His wit, timing and humor makes him my favorite show host now and always.
I'll be watching whatever shows he does next. I just hope Max and the band and Andy is with him as well.
That out of the way, I have now seen Conan's final show. Holy shit. What a great ending! It may not have been as hilarious as some of the shows of the last week (Robin Williams appearance being pretty much the maniacal flipped out highpoint) but it was definitely the right way to go.
Anyone saying Conan was upstaged at the last bit I do kind of disagree with. Sure Ferrell was front and center, but Conan shredded that guitar good! And "Freebird" actually wasn't a joke for once.
I started tearing up a bit at Conan's farewell with the message of "Don't be ever cynical". Especially where his voice broke at one point.
Conan has always, and will always be a class act. His wit, timing and humor makes him my favorite show host now and always.
I'll be watching whatever shows he does next. I just hope Max and the band and Andy is with him as well.
Leno is already gonna' be on Oprah this week.
I guarantee you, Leno and NBC are gonna' use the time over the next little while that Conan can't talk to anyone to totally spin everything in their favour.
Leno will continue his "it's not Conan's fault, he had low ratings, this is what NBC decided and they're my boss" bullshit nice guy schtick for the next several months until his debut on March 1st, and the majority of middle America will believe every second of it. The same way they always do when stuff is repeated at them ad nauseum over and over again with little opposite opinion, they'll start to believe it as fact.
I used to be okay with Leno, too, but this whole thing has really really soured me on him, to the point that I won't watch him. On anything. I don't see how anyone can say he is blameless in this.
As others have more eloquently spelled out above, even if the situation itself (being forced out so as to not lose Conan) wasn't his fault, Leno went about this all the wrong way and has made the wrong choice at almost every turn. If Leno had any sense of personal pride he should have stuck with his decision to step down from TTS rather than being passively-aggressive spiteful and vindictive.
As others have more eloquently spelled out above, even if the situation itself (being forced out so as to not lose Conan) wasn't his fault, Leno went about this all the wrong way and has made the wrong choice at almost every turn. If Leno had any sense of personal pride he should have stuck with his decision to step down from TTS rather than being passively-aggressive spiteful and vindictive.