Eh, it's still pretty messed up, asking parents to give up their newborn children because of their midichlorian count.
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I know its a fantasy series from a galaxy far far away but the more research I do regarding human development and attachment in infants the more screwed up the system comes across to me.
It's less an ask and more of an offer. Like a getting a free scholarship to the most elite school in the entire galaxy, only it's (potentially) for life. The child would be cared for, nurtured with a family group of surrogate siblings, fed, clothed and given the best education possible. To top it off they'll be given a life of purpose, meaning and service to the greater galaxy.
Also, (once they reach the initiate level, presumably) they may leave; quit the order and go home any time they like. The order won't even bill them.
Remember that this isn't some weird fringe cult: it's an ancient and prestigious religious order that many consider an honour just to have their offspring considered. Hell, Ahsoka's whole village were supposedly overjoyed that one of their own had been chosen.
One imagines that for rich families it's an honour, while for the dirt poor, it's an opportunity for their child to have a life where they may never go cold or hungry.
Doesn't change the developmental implications, especially regarding attachment.
Not saying there isn't a way to do it in a healthy way but as it stands I have massive reservations.
But it's a fucked up offer. And no, the environment wasn't that "nurturing" - being in a group home with emotionally aloof Jedi? Um, no thanks.
And, quit and go home to what? To people they never knew, who don't know them? That's a pretty shitty deal.
It was a fucked up idea that GL just didn't think through. It honestly feels like it was thrown in there just so the council could have an argument against training the "old" 9-year-old Anakin.
Frankly, we never should have seen Anakin that young anyway (for countless reasons), the clumsily added-on conflict was resolved easily anyway and created a whole host of very creepy implications for how the Jedi do business.
The Jedi monitor babies a birth looking for midichlorian count? That's pretty fucking draconian. And then whisk them away to a cloistered life from birth to be raised as warrior monks?
UGH. It's seriously awful, even with parental "consent." Who wants to have the fate of their child selected from BIRTH, anyway? So, so bad.
Well since it endured for over a thousand years and only seemed to produce one or two sociopaths out of any 10,000 at a time, I'd say whatever method they used was sound. Hell, with those numbers it seems to beat the shit out of what the aggregate of society can manage.
We get a glimpse of this the the recent Dooku audio play and it seems as if the Jedi tasked with tending to the younglings were anything but cold or aloof. As for attachments: if Jedi developed no emotional attachments then they wouldn't need to be taught how to let go of them. I seriously doubt they forbid toddlers from expressing or receiving familial affection. becoming a Jedi is a process; it doesn't all get imprinted all at once.
Like I said, they're raised in communal clans of surrogate siblings with dedicated primary carers. Basically how an orphanage works, sans the Dickensian undertones.
People's perspective are skewed by modern attitudes, but really this kind of thing is hardly unprecedented. Indeed, it's fairly common in most ancient societies: the idea of a child (typically second or third born to a noble family) being given to the priesthood, sent to a military academy, raised in a boarding school, apprenticed to a master, or even fostered at a royal court. Indeed, I have a little personal experience in this as growing up as a civvie on an army camp, a portion of my classmates in primary school (mostly the sons of officers) were sent off to boarding school at around age 10 or 11. It's really not that weird.
Sure, in reality a lot of that fostered abusive practices and produced a lot of broken people, but also remember: it's a fairy tale. So yes, the wise and noble order of wizards can raise train well adjusted, emotionally healthy adults precisely because that's what the story says they do.
And one of those sociopaths destroyed the entire order. You'll excuse me if I can extremely skeptical of this system that I know nothing about.
If that's the way then I have a slight decrease in my skepticism. But, Legends material was not always so kind to the Jedi and showed them as far more attached and aloof in their caregiving tasks, so that image sticks with me quite vividly.
And oftentimes they have already formed a bond to a caregiver. We are talking about Jedi receiving infants when the first fundamental stages of healthy attachment are being formed.
Ah, I see. Because the story says so I must trust it.
Never mind that stories are a reflection of history and the culture of the times. Never mind that the understanding of the human mind is constantly changing and attachment research is only 40 years old and the larger term implications are still being studied. Never mind all that. Just accept the story and move on.
Forgive me if I cannot.
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Well, what are they supposed to do? Hang around the podrace circuit on the lookout for any unexpected developments?
The Republic probably monitors babies for all kinds of stuff.
Most of that was largely due to the fact that he *wasn't* trained from infant-hood, a fact that got his first application flatly denied. Also, there were a few other mitigating circumstances, like bureaucratic complacency regarding the order's role in the galaxy, a massive political and military upheaval, and...oh I don't know maybe a Sith Lord culminating a millennia long revenge plot?
Let's be clear: with or without Anakin, the order was going to fall and it had nothing to do with how their raised their initiates.
Under no circumstances should the state be "monitoring babies" except for infectious diseases. Anything else is creepy fascist bullshit, period.
We don't even know how the recruitment system works. There's mention of Jedi seekers who spend most of their time wandering the galaxy allowing the force to guide them to some candidates, while others are possibly assigned by one of the councils.
Qui Gon said Anakin would have been detected had he been born in the Republic, so it's a fair assumption that all Republic citizens have their blood tested at birth for any and all manner of ailments, conditions or potentially problematic genetic markers, and that one of those tests is a midichlorian count. Now, for all we know what an infant with a high count is detected, it's possible that the first to be informed are the parents, and that the next question is "do you want to submit these results to the Jedi Order and apply for admittance?"
I mean people keep assuming that the Jedi just show up and take babies away willy-nilly, but there's really nothing to back that up. Ahsoka's people expecting the Jedi to come get her means they had advanced notice. And when Cad Bane took the Gungan potential the mother said something to the effect of "I'd thought I'd have more time", also meaning she was also aware and expecting the child to go.
Furthermore, it indicates that there was either a prearranged time when the child would be admitted, or more likely that a successful application has a cut-off point. Some condition along the lines of "candidates to be admitted no later than their third birthday", or something to that effect, and it's up the the parents if they want the Jedi to take them then and there, or wait until the last minute...or not at all.
Keep in mind that from what we saw in 'Dooku: Jedi Lost' it's possible some cultures place a stigma on force sensitivity so in such cases, sending the child away is inherently in their own best interest.
Qui Gon said Anakin would have been detected had he been born in the Republic, so it's a fair assumption that all Republic citizens have their blood tested at birth for any and all manner of ailments, conditions or potentially problematic genetic markers, and that one of those tests is a midichlorian count. Now, for all we know what an infant with a high count is detected, it's possible that the first to be informed are the parents, and that the next question is "do you want to submit these results to the Jedi Order and apply for admittance?"
I mean people keep assuming that the Jedi just show up and take babies away willy-nilly, but there's really nothing to back that up. Ahsoka's people expecting the Jedi to come get her means they had advanced notice. And when Cad Bane took the Gungan potential the mother said something to the effect of "I'd thought I'd have more time", also meaning she was also aware and expecting the child to go.
Furthermore, it indicates that there was either a prearranged time when the child would be admitted, or more likely that a successful application has a cut-off point. Some condition along the lines of "candidates to be admitted no later than their third birthday", or something to that effect, and it's up the the parents if they want the Jedi to take them then and there, or wait until the last minute...or not at all.
Keep in mind that from what we saw in 'Dooku: Jedi Lost' it's possible some cultures place a stigma on force sensitivity so in such cases, sending the child away is inherently in their own best interest.
I can think of many things.
Anakin, Krell, Dooku, Barriss & Vos all going coocoo in a short span seems to contradict this. I could only imagine how many more went off the rails in the thousands of years prior.
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It's almost like Lucas put Jedi 'younglings' in the prequels without thinking through the implications.
I guess that whole "must have must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind" thing can also be worked out when the potential Jedi is like 6 or 7.
I guess that whole "must have must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind" thing can also be worked out when the potential Jedi is like 6 or 7.
Such as? It's a deeply emotional and dynamic scene, informed by many elements of the franchise.
Someone must put a stop to this creepy fascist bullshit!
Nearly the only thing I like about it is that it's reminiscent of stuff that happens in Japanese chanbara cinema.
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That had a lot more to do with the war, which as stated had not occurred in over 1000 years. That only a handful out of *thousands* cracked under the prolonged traumatic stress only exemplifies the effectiveness of Jedi training, though clearly not it's infallibility.
I agree that the Jedi Order weren't so bad that they deserved to be destroyed.
One of the biggest mistake was in my opinion to have a grand master for such a long time
One of the biggest mistake was in my opinion to have a grand master for such a long time
No, they definitely didn't deserve to be destroyed.