You could just do yourself a favor and imagine there are actually TWO completely different starships that just happen to look very similar and this is all just a cosmic coincidence.
Yeah....no.
Oberth Class – the missing link between Enterprise and Reliant
- Thread starter Robert Comsol
- Start date
Yeah....no.
The hatch that was blown on the Tsiolkovskiy bridge was the emergency escape hatch, not a airlock.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/SS_K.E._Tsiolkovskiy?file=SS_Tsiolkovsky_bridge_emergency_hatch.jpg
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/SS_K.E._Tsiolkovskiy?file=SS_Tsiolkovsky_bridge_emergency_hatch.jpg
Great find! Fascinating! Notice that the alleged "windows" are definitely rectangular and also the portholes are square!
Even the TOS Enterprise had at least circular portholes and after that it's all windows with rounded ends. Looks like the pre-TOS design theory just got new fuel.
The structure behind the saucer (fusion reactors?) looks odd. Almost as if the cover plate was missing but this could just as well be a typical ILM design touch (think Y-wing fighter).
Bob
Even the TOS Enterprise had at least circular portholes and after that it's all windows with rounded ends. Looks like the pre-TOS design theory just got new fuel.
The structure behind the saucer (fusion reactors?) looks odd. Almost as if the cover plate was missing but this could just as well be a typical ILM design touch (think Y-wing fighter).
Bob
It almost looks like twin deflection crystals (or warp field stabilizers if you accept the ENT retcon)
That was my thought too. One of my additions to the SD versions of the Oberth deck plans. I'm keeping them as that for my revised version that I'm currently working on:
http://www.timpalgut.com/oberthdeflectorcrystals.jpg
Of course, I'm welcoming suggestions that the Grissom might have been intended to show us a pre-TOS Federation vessel design, but we have the same alignment of those two "thingies" on the saucer hull of the Excelsior from the same movie which are probably not warp field stabilizers.
I think we are looking at two fusion reactors, one with a clockwise and one with a counter-clockwise nuclear fusion spin and both combine their plasma exhaust towards a central exhaust nozzle which we see at the stern of the slab.
Bob
I think we are looking at two fusion reactors, one with a clockwise and one with a counter-clockwise nuclear fusion spin and both combine their plasma exhaust towards a central exhaust nozzle which we see at the stern of the slab.
Bob
Actually, in TSFS, the Excelsior just had one thingie, that looked a lot like the one on the Enterprise. The switch to two smaller ones might have been (and for my money, is) a downgrade of sorts.
I used to subscribe to the warp field stabilizer theory, but I don't know that it holds water anymore. I once posited that the crystal on the NX-01 warp field stabilizer actually wasn't the stabilizer at all, but a crystal for converting warp plasma for those impulse rockets at the back.
Also, Mr. Probert apparently refers to the one on his Ambassador as the fusion reactor, so it's possible his opinion on what that is has changed over the years? A fusion reactor might make the most sense, especially given the toroid shape.
I used to subscribe to the warp field stabilizer theory, but I don't know that it holds water anymore. I once posited that the crystal on the NX-01 warp field stabilizer actually wasn't the stabilizer at all, but a crystal for converting warp plasma for those impulse rockets at the back.
Also, Mr. Probert apparently refers to the one on his Ambassador as the fusion reactor, so it's possible his opinion on what that is has changed over the years? A fusion reactor might make the most sense, especially given the toroid shape.
The remastered shot is pretty close in terms of scale.
While watching "The Naked Now" I noticed this interesting scaling bit. The Tchaikovsky(sp) is behind the E-D in this shot so that makes this particular TNG Grissom fairly big. I wonder if the TNG New FX version did the same thing?
I like that they removed the overlap... preserves the scaling of the shot, but allows us to rationalize perspective effects to adjust the scale as needed.
Sorry, they did not as I tried to illustrate by providing this link to the TNG footage in post # 213. 
Bob
Bob
A little observation: When Geordi examines the interiors of the Tsiolkovsky we can notice one of these Burke chairs, last time seen in TOS!
I couldn't say whether the set decorators were asked to feature a Burke chair to suggest an "older" Starfleet vessel or whether one of the crew members just loved "old stuff", but I felt that little detail to be worth mentioning.
Another observation, inspired by a TMP design vs. TOS design debate, which hadn't been mentioned yet, is a characteristic of late 23rd Federation starships the Grissom lacked: the patchwork style Aztec pattering the refit Enterprise, Reliant and Excelsior featured.
Bob
I couldn't say whether the set decorators were asked to feature a Burke chair to suggest an "older" Starfleet vessel or whether one of the crew members just loved "old stuff", but I felt that little detail to be worth mentioning.
Another observation, inspired by a TMP design vs. TOS design debate, which hadn't been mentioned yet, is a characteristic of late 23rd Federation starships the Grissom lacked: the patchwork style Aztec pattering the refit Enterprise, Reliant and Excelsior featured.
Bob
It was probably just leftover set decoration that they used for the scene without much thought given to it. I mean, it's a chair.
However, on the subject of chairs, the chairs seen on the bridge are clearly TMP-era, even though Okuda's plaque indicated that the ship was launched only a year before the Enterprise-D. So clearly there was some disconnect there.
No offense, but that's pretty flimsy evidence to support the theory that the Oberth class is older than the TOS Constitution class.
Well, the Aztec pattering looks like the trademark of a late 23rd Century Federation ship, but Grissom didn't have it.
Since we know that the TOS Enterprise didn't feature this kind of Aztec pattering, it's fair to assume that the Oberth Class is a vessel from the TOS or pre-TOS era.
Bob
Since we know that the TOS Enterprise didn't feature this kind of Aztec pattering, it's fair to assume that the Oberth Class is a vessel from the TOS or pre-TOS era.
Bob
Yes, that's what you said before. Other than your opinion, I'm still not sure how that's any evidence that the ship is older.
Plus, if we take the Kelvin and her pre-TOS sister ships into account, the Oberth looks nothing like them either, and they should be her contemporaries, registry-wise.
Plus, if we take the Kelvin and her pre-TOS sister ships into account, the Oberth looks nothing like them either, and they should be her contemporaries, registry-wise.
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According to Shane Johnson in Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise, the only reason the TOS Enterprise didn't have aztecing was because Starfleet used to paint their ships. And who's to say they don't still paint some newer models of ship, like the Oberth-class?
It may not be evidence but it's something worth considering in the context of the debate. Put simply, assume it's a ship from the TOS or pre-TOS era there will be no questions regarding her hull. Assuming it's a ship from the TMP or post-TMP era those questions do come up.
I wasn't aware that ships of a same period have to look alike.
Regarding the Enterprise-C I just suggested that maybe we should make a distinction between different Star Trek "realities" and you are doing the exact opposite. That could explain a thing or two.
@ King Daniel
What would be the purpose of such paint? I mean, the Aztec pattering could have some stealth effect but why paint a ship in white which does the exact opposite (white reflects best). It's almost like saying "your target is here."
Bob
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What would be the purpose of such paint? I mean, the Aztec pattering could have some stealth effect but why paint a ship in white which does the exact opposite (white reflects best). It's almost like saying "your target is here."
Bob
Not KD, but I'll venture an answer. NASA used to paint the fuel tank on the shuttle, too, in the first few Columbia and Challenger launches. But, they saved a pretty penny by NOT painting it, which is why it turned "rust" coloured (less weight on launch, less money on paint). Surely Starfleet has to cut significant expenses here and there, too ... even though they have no money in the 23rd century...
I found the quote:
During the refit, Enterprise was given an additional, although minor, footnote in Star Fleet history. In order to save adding many tons of mass to the vessel, it was decided, for the first time ever, not to paint a Federation vessel with the customary light-grey thermocoat. In fact, Enterprise's pearlescent, bare-alloy appearance was so favourably received that Star Fleet has eliminated thermocoat from all vessels of 90,000 metric tons and above.
(MSGttE, page 13)
Grissom, being a "scout class vessel", would be exempt - hence the untextured TOS-style hull colouration.
During the refit, Enterprise was given an additional, although minor, footnote in Star Fleet history. In order to save adding many tons of mass to the vessel, it was decided, for the first time ever, not to paint a Federation vessel with the customary light-grey thermocoat. In fact, Enterprise's pearlescent, bare-alloy appearance was so favourably received that Star Fleet has eliminated thermocoat from all vessels of 90,000 metric tons and above.
(MSGttE, page 13)
Grissom, being a "scout class vessel", would be exempt - hence the untextured TOS-style hull colouration.
