NX-class Starship's shuttlebay

[Wingsley]

I have a question, and it'll probably sound ludicrous, but here goes:

Is there enough room in the shuttle-pod launch bay of an NX-class starship (or any cargo bay, for that matter) to house a ship configured like the NX-Alpha prototype (ENT "First Flight") warp 5 test ship? Is there any way an NX-class vessel could be configured to haul one of those ships, even with the collapsible wings?

It doesn't look like it to me, but I thought I would ask.

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x24/firstflight_054.jpg

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x24/firstflight_430.jpg

 

[Frodo Lives]

It certainly doesn't look likely, although maybe if the shuttlebay was just a little bit bigger. The NX-Alpha seems to be about three shuttlepods long, possibly just under four.

It's always bugged me how big the NX-01 is and yet how small a crew she has. Yeah, it was a more primitive time and all but they certainly didn't look like they were short of space on Enterprise.

I would have thought one of Earth's first long-range exploration ships would have been packed to the gills with all manner of scientists, doctors, and extra exploratory craft. Yet the ship only appeared to have one MD (and he was an alien) and two shuttlepods- what gives?

And let's not get started on the shuttle size and space... seemed pretty inadequate for a ship that size.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Given a big enough chainsaw, you probably could...

You'd have to store the winglets in one bay, (the nacelles would have to be removed but could be stored in the same bay) and you'd have to cut the fuselage in half along the length.

Do that and yep, it'll fit.

 

[Timo]

Or then you might saw off the transverse beam that separates the forward shuttlebay hatches from the aft ones...

I would have thought one of Earth's first long-range exploration ships would have been packed to the gills with all manner of scientists, doctors, and extra exploratory craft.

For a mission of exploration, perhaps. But Archer wasn't on a mission of exploration.

For the first two seasons, Archer was on a milk run whose sole intent was to deliver Klaang the Klingon to his homeworld and then return. That's what his ship was stocked for. The main guns had been left ashore; the scientists were probably waving on the pier, confident that they would get aboard a few months later when the exploration mission really began. The extra shuttlepods and surface crawlers and whatnot might have been almost finished at the time, and waiting for shipment to orbit.

It's just that Archer chose not to return from that milk run for the first two years. A bit cocky of him to think that he could do meaningful exploration with the gear he had aboard - but I can understand the political pressure. If he had returned, he might have been bogged down in bureaucracy and courts of inquiry and whatnot while the Vulcans continued to stall Earth's interstellar efforts. When he chose to stay where he was, Vulcans no longer had any say.

Probably the ship had a full exploration crew of about 200, considering her size vis-á-vis Kirk's 430-crew vessel. But 80 was enough for the milk run, and 80 plus extra supplies probably was just fine for the third season special mission into the Delphic Expanse.

As to why the ship wasn't finally stocked to capacity for the fourth season... Well, we don't know she wasn't. There are no further references to the size of her crew during Season Four. Although to be sure, most of her missions during that season were again unrelated to exploration, and intended as such from the outset. It is only in a singe, late episode, "Bound", that Archer again has time to explore things. Apparently, and reasonably, Starfleet scrapped the whole exploration thing and sent NX-01 to deal with more acute issues.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Frodo Lives]

Excellent explanation as always Timo, with the added side effect of proving just what a douchebag Archer really is.

 

[Ronald Held]

I thought that the ship needed proportionally more volume of machinery to do the same tasks as in a Constitution class starship.

 

[Delta1]

Maybe it's not Archer that's the douchebag. Maybe it's the UE military establishment or politicians. Thrilled by Archer's excellent performance during the Klaang incident, they decided to cut costs by firing all the scientists and telling Archer to carry on just as he had been doing. Why pay for specialists when Archer can perform his mission--show the flag and visit a few aliens--using just the ship's crew?

 

[Frodo Lives]

No. Archer's a douchebag for a lot of reasons.

I'm pretty certain the UE wouldn't judge the scientific merits of Archer's abilities based on the Klaang incident - to do so would not only be the height of stupidity, but the absolute WRONG conclusion to make about the episode. I'd hardly call the mission a rousing success, considering they made an enemy of the Sulliban, and there was no telling how the Klingons took their actions. Sure they didn't start a war, but they didn't exactly become enamored of humans either. Not to mention what the mission showed of the NX-01's security precautions.

 

[starburst]

I doubt they were that understaffed, its a small ship only a couple decks bigger than deffiant plus they had to cram in more for storage of supplies and general size of equipment that later on was much smaller.

The one thing I dont understand is why they didnt go back to finish the ship off or finish some of the important bits themselves like weapons (which they eventually did)

 

[Delta1]

I'm pretty certain the UE wouldn't judge the scientific merits of Archer's abilities based on the Klaang incident

Ah, but Enterprise wasn't a science vessel. She was a vessel of exploration and an object of national pride. You don't need scientists to explore, you need someone with enough self-assurance to take his dog into a sacred grove and leave a message for the tree gods. You don't need scientists for your national flagship, either, you just need a commander who can get his ship out of scrapes without getting it blown up. When Archer proved capable of all these things, it obviated the need for any specialized personnel, especially personnel dedicated to tertiary (at best) missions. Enterprise-D can carry a roving, full-time xenocyberendocrinology laboratory, but Enterprise-NX cannot.

 

[Timo]

And we know the ship was understaffed, at least in the sense that there were empty cabins around. Hoshi Sato was able to request and get transfer; nobody was inconvenienced when Daniels' quarters were sealed off for the rest of the mission.

its a small ship only a couple decks bigger than deffiant

Actually, it's almost as big as Kirk's ship in internal dimensions (bigger saucer, and the engine booms almost match Kirk's secondary hull in volume), and equally large in length and beam (these dimensions are decided by the nacelles and saucer which, as said, match Kirk's) even if flatter.

The one thing I dont understand is why they didnt go back to finish the ship off or finish some of the important bits themselves like weapons

They ran into these problems one by one, really, and each time managed on their own. Not much incentive to go back.

And as said, they might have gotten into trouble if they did return: Vulcans would see the mission so far as an unmitigated disaster and would do whatever was within their powers to block them from leaving again.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[David cgc]

Timo said:
And we know the ship was understaffed, at least in the sense that there were empty cabins around. Hoshi Sato was able to request and get transfer; nobody was inconvenienced when Daniels' quarters were sealed off for the rest of the mission.

As I recall, Hoshi mentioned that she was trading with someone. And in "Fallen Hero," she had to bunk with someone else so the Vulcan ambassador would have a larger suite befitting her station.

 

[Wingsley]

Suffice it to say that the NX-class of Earth starships were not understaffed. The technology and supplies these ships had to carry to sustain their crews on missions (remember, they did not have replicators yet) were no doubt bulkier than starships would become in Kirk's day.

This was Earth's first attempt at a bona fide deep space vessel, and there were inadequacies (no deflector shields) and shortcomings (crude transporters, room for a crew of about 80) so Enterprise represented a humble but ambitious beginning for Earth's first push into the Galaxy.

The thing I'm trying to figure out is if there would be some way to use an NX-class starship's shuttlebay (or a cargo bay, or whatever) to corral a ship of the same basic shape as the NX-Alpha. Say, they could deploy a ship like this as a crude, warp-capable interceptor during the Earth-Romulan Conflict; that kind of thing.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

Delta1 said:

I'm pretty certain the UE wouldn't judge the scientific merits of Archer's abilities based on the Klaang incident

Ah, but Enterprise wasn't a science vessel. She was a vessel of exploration and an object of national pride.

A vessel of exploration is a science vessel.

 

[Ronald Held]

I thought it was a test bed for new technology as well as the first deep space exploration vehicle. To me this is more of a survey vessel rather than one doing in depth scientific work.

 

[Plecostomus]

Wingsley said:

The thing I'm trying to figure out is if there would be some way to use an NX-class starship's shuttlebay (or a cargo bay, or whatever) to corral a ship of the same basic shape as the NX-Alpha. Say, they could deploy a ship like this as a crude, warp-capable interceptor during the Earth-Romulan Conflict; that kind of thing.

Sure why not. Maybe the first few (Enterprise, Columbia, Atlantis, Challenger, Endeavor) were built as we saw, and the next "block" had a bigger shuttle bay. Wartime production saw a further enlargement and specialized equipment to house a single long-range warp-fighter (or maybe two... one ready for launch and one waiting to be prepped for launch).

*shrug* If you want to make it happen there is nothing stopping you.

 

[starburst]

Timo said:
And we know the ship was understaffed, at least in the sense that there were empty cabins around. Hoshi Sato was able to request and get transfer;

If I remember right Hoshi asked if she could swap with another junior officer not just switch to an empty cabin.

Timo said:nobody was inconvenienced when Daniels' quarters were sealed off for the rest of the mission.

They did mention his room mate, but your still correct as there will have been an empty bunk for him.

Actually, it's almost as big as Kirk's ship in internal dimensions (bigger saucer, and the engine booms almost match Kirk's secondary hull in volume), and equally large in length and beam (these dimensions are decided by the nacelles and saucer which, as said, match Kirk's) even if flatter.

Ive never really thought about it and you may be right, just looking on size comparison shots there looks like less space, but still the NX-01 would be carrying far more in consumables and bulky equipment than the 1701 (depending on how food is really dealt with in either period)

They ran into these problems one by one, really, and each time managed on their own. Not much incentive to go back.

And as said, they might have gotten into trouble if they did return: Vulcans would see the mission so far as an unmitigated disaster and would do whatever was within their powers to block them from leaving again.

Still shouldnt have stopped them installing the cannons themselves like they eventually did, always seemed odd to me that Reed didnt ask to after the Klang mission seeming they had all of the parts on board

 

[Plecostomus]

Still shouldnt have stopped them installing the cannons themselves like they eventually did, always seemed odd to me that Reed didnt ask to after the Klang mission seeming they had all of the parts on board

Building and installing a cannon is different than the routine repair and upkeep the security officer and engineer would be required to do. You'd need access to the manuals and possibly several specialists to pull it off.

Trek fails in this respect. Everyone knows every aspect of everything at all times when plot requires it. Not enough dedicated specialists. Not so good for a main character but fine for a recurring guest (Like Gomez or Barclay.)

 

[starburst]

Exactly, seeming they installed 3 during an episode it doesnt make sence that they hadnt bothered before that...other than it being a part of the plot of course.

This is why you cant reason anything with this, it will change as the story demands

 

[Cary L. Brown]

TheMacMan said:

Delta1 said:

I'm pretty certain the UE wouldn't judge the scientific merits of Archer's abilities based on the Klaang incident

Ah, but Enterprise wasn't a science vessel. She was a vessel of exploration and an object of national pride.

A vessel of exploration is a science vessel.

I disagree. A great example of a SCIENCE VESSEL would be the Grissom. Not necessarily fast, definitely not well-armed or well-defended. A single-purpose ship... a small crew section and a huge honkin' sensor package.

An exploration vessel, on the other hand, need not have tremendously powerful or precise sensors. Its purpose is not to do the "fine detail work" but just to do the initial exploration... "going boldly" and all that.

The "explorer" vessel goes out first and takes a cursory "glance" at a whole lotta different places. The SCIENCE VESSELS come later, to do detailed examinations of the things that the explorer's brief "glance" says is worthy of a second look.

Unless you choose to do an uber-massive vessel like a Galaxy. But then again, the Galaxy was, by all appearances, an EXPERIMENT, and from the number of casualties we saw from the initial build, not an entirely successful one! Putting all your eggs in one basket isn't necessarily the most practical approach, and I think that the failures we saw of the Galaxy Class demonstrated that quite nicely.

Think of the "explorer" as Lewis and Clarke... looking for the all-water route across North America. Think of the science vessel as the biologists who are, even today, studying the ecology of the areas that those guys did the first "glance" at.

Make sense?