I read the next seson will only have 10 episodes down from 12 which was down from 13 a few years ago. What gives? Tom Baker used to have over 26 episodes a season. Yes 25 minutes each but still 26. Each season also seems to be further and further from the last season. Sorry if I want more, but I do.
Number of episodes per season
- Thread starter worf1965
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26 episodes of 25 minute format would still equal 13 episodes of the 45 minute format, technically.
To be honest, as someone who doesn't follow the British scene and is accustomed to the American model of 20+ episodes a season, this does seem strange. Its not like they stream all at once like any given Netflix show, for example.
I keep saying this, but to me, it will always seem like the BBC is trying to give as little attention to Doctor Who as humanly possible. They always seem to have a contempt for the show, but support it because its an enormous cash cow even now.
To be honest, as someone who doesn't follow the British scene and is accustomed to the American model of 20+ episodes a season, this does seem strange. Its not like they stream all at once like any given Netflix show, for example.
I keep saying this, but to me, it will always seem like the BBC is trying to give as little attention to Doctor Who as humanly possible. They always seem to have a contempt for the show, but support it because its an enormous cash cow even now.
Nah, to be honest outside of soaps/news programmes there's no comedy/drama TV show made in the UK that I can think of that has more than 13 episodes a season (and most have a lot less). I think the BBC's perspective on Who is that it is one of many successful shows, is it their top priority all the time? No, but you could say the same about Strictly, or Silent Witness, Call the Midwife or Top Gear etc.
That the BBC are not as focused on Who as we all are is very different to them actively hating it.
That the BBC are not as focused on Who as we all are is very different to them actively hating it.
That was more Moffat's doing if anything, it remains to be seen if Chibnall will continue the erratic scheduling or go back to having consistency between season releases.
And how the hell do you intend to get "more?" Doing twelve episode seasons takes nine months to film, plus more time for pre-production, and even more for post-production, and IIRC that seems to be staying the same even with the episode count cut down to ten. Simply put, there just isn't enough time in a year to do more episodes of Doctor Who. Unless they begin spending crazy amounts of overtime on the shows like American productions do, but British labour unions prevent a lot of things American television depends on to stay afloat, which is a good thing since those schedules are extremely brutal.
^^agreed. Especially as Chibnall has already hyped up "more filmic quality!!!!!!!!!", it all likely means they need more time to faff around with the CGI visual effects and recolor with the muted, teal/orange ubiquitous trite 'n' dreary non-palette that everyone else uses in their film productions. Rendering CGI alone takes a ton of time. Color grading also takes time, but losing a couple episodes does save time. Especially if you have a zillion fast-paced scenes to edit together, which has been increasingly become standard since if you can't think between scenes they can get away with a lot more plot holes along with everything else. People can have stories or super shiny pretty, but not both. And it's not 1963 anymore when plot (and acting despite being "televised stageplay") had to pull the story along more than the visuals and incidental music.
If you want more episodes, do you want them to bring back the wobbly sets too? The rudimentary special effects? What are you willing to give up to go back to the production schedule of 40 some years ago?
I kind of like the wobbly effects, though I know they wouldn't go over too well with today's audiences. Maybe U.S. series have spoiled me with 20 + the norm. Sometimes I think the constant barrage of special effects is too much. I would appreciate better story lines with more actual acting. I have the same issue with the reboot Star Trek movies. One of the things that drew me to both were the story lines that actually make you have to think a little bit. Maybe a little more of that could bring more episodes.
Well, maybe they could get some tips from American shows. Saying it needs to take so long to do 12 episodes when even nowadays a bunch of genre shows in america do 20ish in less time means something is taking longer for the BBC that could presumably be more efficient. Maybe its not something that could be fixed (like things taking longer because of weird union rules or something), but they are weirdly slow compared to contemporary shows in other countries, and I can't imagine its just a budget issue.
British shows generally shoot a normal 8-9 hour day, compared to the 12-16+ hours that's typical for American shows. American shows aren't more efficient, they just overwork the cast and crew.
Exactly. There’s budgets to also consider. And the mark
Actually, come to think of it: what American genre shows still do 20 episodes in a season?
Edited to add: right, the CW Super hero shows. But then, they aren’t traveling through time and space, and use the same standing sets over and over. Ok, there is Legends. But, boy, sometimes that looks cheap as hell
Also Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. The current season is practically a bottle season with creative redressing of the same set (which is really the same location, just separated by...well, spoilers, dear).
Aside from Dr Who, the longest-season BBC primetime drama shows that spring to mind are Poldark and Taboo, at 8 episodes each. Most - Death In Paradise, The Fall, Requiem, Hard Sun, Shetland, etc - are six episodes. Some, like Sherlock or Luther were two or three episodes.
Some seasons of Spooks had ten episodes, but this dropped to eight and then six. Silent Witness has ten episodes (essentially five 2-parters). Obviously it's been off air a few years but Merlin had 13 episode seasons (but then again this was the norm at the time). And going back way into the past Blakes 7 had 13 episode seasons as well.
Nothing leaps out at me as having more than 13 episodes, although I guess if you called Casualty a drama rather than a soap it'd fir the bill.
Indeed, but they're we're going back several years - right now six is the norm, 8 the epic exception, and 10 almost unique. So the number of DW episodes remains at the upper end of the BBC's prime drama season length.
This shortening of everything, of course, has less to do with their attitude to the shows, and more to with the squeeze on its income coupled with a recent requirement to pay for stuff like the World Service, which used to be State funded, and S4C (the welsh version of independent network Channel 4) which used to be funded by a mix of State subsidy and ad revenue and isn't a fucking BBC organisation anyway, but the Tories have forced them into it!
This shortening of everything, of course, has less to do with their attitude to the shows, and more to with the squeeze on its income coupled with a recent requirement to pay for stuff like the World Service, which used to be State funded, and S4C (the welsh version of independent network Channel 4) which used to be funded by a mix of State subsidy and ad revenue and isn't a fucking BBC organisation anyway, but the Tories have forced them into it!
Even if they did a season of character oriented episodes with very little if any visual effects, at ten episodes it's still going to take nine months to film, plus more time for pre- and post-production. And by "pre-production" I'm including that nagging part so critical and integral to the process known as "writing." So, again, there's only so much than can be done in a particular year, and we pretty much are at the maximum of what can be expected for the show.
Ain't that the damn truth. I remember Bill Mumy talking in an interview about the DS9 episode he guest starred in (The Siege of AR-558). He said it was a six day shoot, and he had to be there all six days, working from 7am to 11pm, and that you could tell it those hours were taking a toll on the actors and production people who were at this every episode.
Just think about that for a moment. Sixteen hour work days, six days a week, until twenty six episodes are filmed. IMO, that's some horrifying shit.
The BBC's budget is £3.5bn. Split across 8 nationwide TV channels, a whole load of radio stations, regional stuff like Alba, S4C, and local news, etc. Doctor Who is one show and it isn't like they can afford to dedicate much more to it.
British tv never did, at least by the 70s, the US pattern of having a series run all year with reruns. Instead the pattern for 50 minutes (an hour but without adverts) was 16 (if run September to Christmas), then 13 and 13, plus a few reruns over the summer to reintroduce the series returning in September. Nowadays, shorter runs, followed by a short serial, are frequent.
But... a slow shortening can be the route to cancellation. Spooks and Waking the Dead effectively ended because a short episode order increased the per-episode costs (IYSWIM... less episodes to spread the costs of the standing sets, etc). But they came from outside companies, Who is BBC in-house (despite the problems of internal accountancy).
The US series that do 20+ episodes per season tend to be more ensemble casts (i.e. less individual screen time for each actor) whereas Doctor Who has historically been largely based around the Doctor and a companion who are on screen for the vast majority of the episodes. An ensemble cast also means you can break your cast up into groups and potentially film two scenes at the same time with different cast members, saving time. Also those shows tend to use the same sets week by week or location shooting, whereas Doctor Who only really gets to reuse the TARDIS set regularly and frequently need to create a new alien planet / space station / base as well as various alien costumes that can only be used for a single episode or maybe once per season. All of these things, plus the significant amount of special effects that are required simply means that Doctor Who takes longer to produce a single episode than many of the US shows that do 20+ episodes. Also as pointed out elsewhere those shows tend to make the cast and crew work longer hours, which causes stress and can sometimes affect the quality of the show.
An ideal compromise would be another (decent) spin-off that could make the wait between seasons less frustrating. At the peak of NuWho we had 13 episodes each of Doctor Who, Torchwood, and 12 episodes of Sarah Jane plus a Doctor Who Christmas special which filled out the year beautifully (although the quality of those shows varied quite a bit too).
Ah, A nugget of truth is spoken. Not necessarily in the full context I wanted, but I'll take it. So the writing and acting were better in the past, while the writing and the acting today is subpar enough to pass, and the effects, and sets are all top notch, yep. That is how I see NuWho. Glad someone else acknowledges it, even in just in passing.
I'll take quality over quantity any day.
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