NuKirk as reflective and literate as original Kirk?

[kkozoriz1]

Spock seemed to be pretty much back in control at the time. Yes, he had just lost his planet, all his people and his mother but he was very much in control.

Seeing as the Narada had the black hole forming inside it, it's unlikely that it was going anywhere except to it's doom.

Unlike TSFS where Kruge was trying to pull Kirk off the cliff, Nero was hanging on the edge of the cliff. Kirk & Spock just walked over and stepped on his fingers.

In Star Trek I'd like my heroes to act more, how should I say it....., heroic. To make the hard choices. To rise above our base instincts. They can fail. Everyone can fail. But when they do, I'd rather not have them be proud of the fact.

 

[DonIago]

^^I can agree with this.

Sorry people are disappointed that the characters didn't live up to their ideals, but rarely (if ever) did we see the characters facing someone who had so directly and negatively impacted their lives either. Everyone slips once in awhile.

Heck, it's not as though as the end of TWoK Kirk makes any particularly serious attempt to rescue anyone on Reliant...and for all we know there were actual crew on board in some locations.

 

[shapeshifter]

For all we know Kirk got his ass chewed for their actions but, as usual, their saving the day may also earned them medals. That's Canon, right?

As for NuKirk not being what we expect him to be, give him time to grow up.

 

[BillJ]

For all we know Kirk got his ass chewed for their actions but, as usual, their saving the day may also earned them medals. That's Canon, right?

As for NuKirk not being what we expect him to be, give him time to grow up.

He's captain of the flagship of the United Federation of Planets, he doesn't get the luxury of growing up. Sitting at the big boy table means that you're a big boy... like it or not.

This was why I so disliked the idea of 'fast-tracking' Kirk to the command of the Enterprise. That type of position requires someone who has at least some 'real world' experience in the field. Not to mention some experience as an administrator as he is now in charge of a crew of 1,100 officers and enlisted personnel.

 

[shapeshifter]

You're paying no attention to or have dismissed events and details which led to the circumstances in question. You've set your mind to accept only absolutes; it's black or it's white, it's up or it's down, it's full or it's empty. You've made up your mind and nothing I or anyone says will change it.

 

[BillJ]

You're paying no attention to or have dismissed events and details which led to the circumstances in question. You've set your mind to accept only absolutes; it's black or it's white, it's up or it's down, it's full or it's empty. You've made up your mind and nothing I or anyone says will change it.

Seems the same can be said of you. Especially since you didn't answer a single point that I brought up.

 

[Pauln6]

For all we know Kirk got his ass chewed for their actions but, as usual, their saving the day may also earned them medals. That's Canon, right?

As for NuKirk not being what we expect him to be, give him time to grow up.

My issue is less with Kirk (great performance) and more with what the writers are saying is acceptable behaviour to the Federation. It may be that Kirk was chewed out but we the viewers are not shown this, none of the crew voice any concern, and we're shown Kirk being promoted from cadet to captain, so most people come away thinking that Starfleet approves of summary execution (and many viewers will approve of that).

As I said, I have no issue with Han killing Greedo because that's the kind of guy Han is and in his situation, killing a scumbag like Greedo was a non-issue. Even so, George Lucas and other people must have had an issue with this because he decided to change it.

My own personal view is that even if we can understand why Kirk and Spock executed Nero, I think Starfleet should have addressed this. But of course that would seem petty - you saved the Earth but killed a mass murderer - shame on you. Still, concern over allowing personal feelings to affect command decisions would raise questions about fitness to lead. Look what happened to Garth! It would have been so much better if the writers had just made it a self-defence killing and not an execution. It really does leave a nasty taste in my mouth.

Bring back Rand and I'll forgive everything though.

 

[DonIago]

I would like to see more of the TOS "bit players" show up as the movies progress.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You know I just realized something...

What the heck does Kirk blowing Nero up have to do with him being well read, I mean Khan killed a lot of people in TWOK and we know he was well read.

 

[Pauln6]

You know I just realized something...

What the heck does Kirk blowing Nero up have to do with him being well read, I mean Khan killed a lot of people in TWOK and we know he was well read.

He was hardly well read - he quoted Klingon Shakespeare. He probably read it off the pack of a Gakh breakfast box last time he was on the Enterprise.

I think Pine worked hard to make Kirk more than a 'genius-level' knucklehead. It may have just been a pained look here and there when he thought he was out of his depth but I thought he did a great job. More of the same with a few quotations would be indicative of the old Kirk but I suppose it depends how well read the writers are. Perhaps someone can suggest a wiki site with famous quotations to help them out?

 

[Captrek]

As long as we’re on the subject, did Kirk and crew actually need Nero’s permission to save him and his crew? Once they got the Narada’s shields down — which apparently they did, or its weapons would presumably have been ineffective against a ship from 100 years in the future — couldn’t they just beam everybody aboard the Enterprise before hightailing it out of there? If nothing else, it would have made a good excuse for keeping the Enterprise near the black hole long enough to justify the action scene with Scotty and the warp core.

Perhaps someone can suggest a wiki site with famous quotations to help them out?

“Have you ever read Milton, captain?”
“Nah, but I read the ‘reign in hell’ quote at Wikiquote.org.”

 

[Pauln6]

As long as we’re on the subject, did Kirk and crew actually need Nero’s permission to save him and his crew? Once they got the Narada’s shields down — which apparently they did, or its weapons would presumably have been ineffective against a ship from 100 years in the future — couldn’t they just beam everybody aboard the Enterprise before hightailing it out of there? If nothing else, it would have made a good excuse for keeping the Enterprise near the black hole long enough to justify the action scene with Scotty and the warp core.

Perhaps someone can suggest a wiki site with famous quotations to help them out?

“Have you ever read Milton, captain?”
“Nah, but I read that ‘reign in hell’ quote at wikiquote.org.”

LOL! That's more like it! Or maybe Keenser can be well read.

They should have had Rand on transporters. She could have said they were having trouble getting a lock with all the gravitational fluxes and then she could have killed Nero's whole crew on the transporter pad - it's what she does best...

 

[kkozoriz1]

Chekov could have beamed them back even after they'd been crushed into a singularity (as long as nobody's mother was wisth them)

 

[Pauln6]

Anybody else who wants to encourage Chekov to steal Janice's thunder gets bitch-slapped all the way to the sequel. Although admittedly, Chekov has nice legs, I bet he can't make coffee with a phaser.

 

[Rusty0918]

Well, back to the topic; they do need to develop Kirk as a more mature person by the sequel. We can't have the same obnoxious cocky devil-may-care person in the sequel, or else there'll be trouble.

I'll hold full judgement until I see the sequel.

 

[DonIago]

No argument here, though I hope he'll still be reminiscent of TOS Kirk rather than TOSMovieKirk.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Well, back to the topic; they do need to develop Kirk as a more mature person by the sequel. We can't have the same obnoxious cocky devil-may-care person in the sequel, or else there'll be trouble.

I guess some of that that will depend on how long after Star Trek the sequel is set.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Why should Kirk change? It worked pretty well for him the first time? Had Pike pulling string for him, didn't follow orders and got command of the ship. Doesn't seem he has a whole lot of reason to change.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Why should Kirk change? It worked pretty well for him the first time? Had Pike pulling string for him, didn't follow orders and got command of the ship. Doesn't seem he has a whole lot of reason to change.

He lucked out. That's why the next movie should start with him getting a big ole THWACK to the head. Because reality doesn't favor fools, Jimmy boy. Time to grow up.

 

[kkozoriz1]

That's part of the problem, he was pretty much nothing but lucky. And yet he not only got promoted right out of the Academy, he was promoted past EVERYONE else except Pike. You know he;s not going to get THWACKED so far down that he's going to lose that. He may learn a little humility but he's been established as the hero that doesn't fail. He may stumble but I can't see him falling at all.