Now is the time for restoration/enhancement of the films

[Therin of Andor]

CorporalClegg said:
The great thing with TFF is that there’s so much that could be done that is easily within the realm of possibilities to make it a brilliant film. Of course, I was hoping for that with a Shat-cut.

Just insert the gargoyles and rock man footage from "Galaxy Quest"

 

[Matt]

Again I say, clearly and slowly, the plan I have in mind would keep the films exactly the same and also offer a 'complete' version with all the cut scenes, redone effects, etc. No need to get your panties in a twist.

I mean, how clear do I have to make it? I said in the original post that this isn't a discussion about preserving the films or destroying the originals... So don't argue about it.

And if you're telling me the clearness and crispness of a frame from ST2 is just as clear and crisp as a digital frame from Nemesis you're bonkers.

We have methods of cleaning up excessive film grain and noise without destroying the original frame.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Matt said:
We have methods of cleaning up excessive film grain and noise without destroying the original frame.

At huge expense - and at the risk of once again angering those fans who already gripe about Paramount "double dipping".

 

[Kolrad]

I'm afraid that the changes you listed are either things that I think would make the movies worse, or things that I don't care about either way.

One of the things I enjoy about movies is that they are tied to the time they were made; they have a context within the history of filmmaking.

 

[Kirks_Flying_Wig]

I agree that the sound the Excelsior makes as the transwarp fails should be changed, and... that's it. The films are fine as they are. Effects can be updated to look more modern but they'll be redone again 30 years down the line. It's best to just leave everything as it is. As for the deleted scenes, well sometimes they're deleted for a reason.

 

[CoveTom]

Matt said:
Again I say, clearly and slowly, the plan I have in mind would keep the films exactly the same and also offer a 'complete' version with all the cut scenes, redone effects, etc. No need to get your panties in a twist.

Okay, then let me try and state my opinion again, clearly and slowly. There's is no need to "complete," restore, enhance, or otherwise tinker with the films, regardless of whether or not the originals are still made available. With the possible exception of TFF, the films are fine as they are and fine as they have always been. Just let them be.

 

[Harvey]

Charles Trip Tucker III said:
I believe legal issues keep the entire score from being released, but there can be expanded scores. Stargate and Aliens have both had longer scores released recently.

Both of those films were from studios other than Paramount. Paramount, sad to say, has a notorious reputation for releasing scores. Either they just don't do it, or we end up with a release far shorter than even the length of one CD. We did get an expanded version of TMP, so complete scores are always possible, but I wouldn't have expectations too high.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Hirogen Alpha said:
Paramount, sad to say, has a notorious reputation for releasing scores. Either they just don't do it, or we end up with a release far shorter than even the length of one CD.

Paramount doesn't release any scores. Music companies tender for the job. Each ST movie, for example, has had a different publisher: CBS, Atlantic, Capital, MCA, Epic, GNP Crescendo, Neil Norman Crescendo, Varese Sarabande, Columbia.

The movie studio doesn't merely decide how much of a score to let a company publish. It's what each company believes will be commercially viable.

 

[Harvey]

^^
You're right that it's not Paramount who releases the scores directly, but they are nevertheless notorious for being disinterested in scores, leading to them being unreleased or incomplete. At least, that's my understanding. There's a reason Varese's Soundtrack Club releases are mostly Universal and Fox titles.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Hirogen Alpha said:
There's a reason Varese's Soundtrack Club releases are mostly Universal and Fox titles.

Perhaps Paramount just charges higher licence fees? Or Varese Sarabande has some kind of tie to Universal and/or Fox.

What really big Paramount movies have not had a soundtrack released?

 

[CoveTom]

^ I think the issue is not the existence of a soundtrack release, but the completeness and/or quality of those releases. Scores for Paramount films do seem to be often lacking in that regard, but as to whether that's the fault of Paramount, the music label, or both I have no idea.

 

[Therin of Andor]

CoveTom said:
^ I think the issue is not the existence of a soundtrack release, but the completeness and/or quality of those releases. Scores for Paramount films do seem to be often lacking in that regard.

I collect science fiction and fantasy movie soundtracks. Most two-hour movies spawn a commercial soundtrack of about an hour's worth of music. I do have one "complete soundtrack" - "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" - but I can't say I play it all that often. I usually reach for the more commercial one. If I'm in the mood for three hours of the same music, I'm more likely to watch the actual movie, or have that on as background.

As for ST, I have everything i need (I think), including the marvellous TMP anniversary release with the extra tracks, and also a bootleg that someone gave me of every other cue that was in the film but not on the commercial releases. Again, it always seems like overkill. I usually play the anniversary version when in the mood for TMP music.

I ask again, which commercial Paramount soundtracks have been so shoddy as to make collectors so angry? Which movie soundtracks are being sat on, unreleased, just to annoy the fans?

I guess there are a few things I have on LP and now wish for a re-release on CD, but not many.

Unreleased orchestral movie soundtracks I guess I'd have liked, to make my collection more complete: "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace", "Batman and Robin" and "Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend". None of those are Paramount pictures.

I'm not so sure there's that much more in forgotten cues of ST theme music that I covet. Or is there?

 

[Harvey]

^^
I honestly can't remember the details. I haven't been buying and pursuing my film score collection as much as I did from 2000-2005. I'm sure there's someone more knowledgeable at Film Score Monthly or the John Williams Fan Network that could help you out. If Indysolo popped by I'm sure he could explain things.

There are a few tracks left unreleased from the Star Trek movies that I would like to have, especially from TWOK, TFF, TUC, FC, INS, and NEM. TMP, TSFS, TVH, and GEN had pretty complete releases.

 

[Arlo]

I say the best way to honor the films is to leave them be.

 

[igrokbok]

Arlo said:
I say the best way to honor the films is to leave them be.

I have to agree. I don't want "improvements" on these films any more than I want them on other films in my collection like the original War of the Worlds or The Day the Earth Stood Still. Aside from some possible digital clean up and audio tweaking, (like the beautiful recent remastering of Forbidden Planet) they should really be left alone.

 

[Maurice]

Well, they could slip and remove all the visible wires on the Martian manta ray ships if they wanted to lol.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Charles Trip Tucker III said:
Unless deleted scenes are being added to the film, leave them alone.

That's exactly how I see it, although Cardinal Biggles has made a good point:

cardinal biggles said:
Just leave them alone; sometimes deleted scenes are deleted for a reason.

So, I'd say that deleted scenes that had been deleted because they were really, really bad (Caitlin Darr in TVH) or because they would contradict future continuity (Sulus promotion in TWOK) shouldn't be restored. But I'd be happy to see the deleted scenes from Nemesis and Insurrection restored, along with the still missing scenes from TWOK.

And then there is the SLV of TMP which is still lacking a proper widescreen DVD release.

 

[Doug Otte]

Matt said:
And if you're telling me the clearness and crispness of a frame from ST2 is just as clear and crisp as a digital frame from Nemesis you're bonkers.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you comparing the film copy of one film to a digital master of another? Both were shot on film. Due to its age, ST2 will never be as clear and sharp as Nemesis. There might be some inherent differences in the film stock used too, but I wouldn't know about that. With all things being equal a digital master from the film would look about the same on both films, but the difference in age at least makes them NOT equal.

We have methods of cleaning up excessive film grain and noise without destroying the original frame.

Yes, but many film fans don't like the removal of film grain because you are changing the original appearance of the film and you also remove some detail of the picture along with the grain. Maybe they have new algorithms that can remove grain without affecting picture detail? Anyway, the appearance of the film would be altered. See the new version of "To Catch a Thief." While it looks better overall, the lack of grain looks odd - not film-like.

Anyway, count me as voting for HD transfers of the original films without any other monkeying around. Keep deleted/alternate scenes as extras, not integrated via seamless branching.

Doug

 

[benny]

Matt said:
Redo the shots they recycled from Encounter at Farpoint.

Beyond my obligatory LEAVE THE DAMN MOVIES ALONE ( ) rant, I'm puzzled about this. I don't think anything from EaF was recycled. For one, the resolution for TV (especially 1987) wouldn't stand up to the movie screen. Hence why the sets had to be redone. It may have been the same old Enterprise model, but I'd be shocked if a shot was taken directly from EaF and put into the movie.

 

[Charles Trip Tucker III]

When you see the Enterprise begin to saucer separate from beneach the ship, that is lifted directly from "Encounter at Farpoint." When the camera angle shifts from below the ship to behind, new footage resumes. I know this, because I've compared screen caps. It's identicle.