now I vomited on miranda kadohata

[Use of Time]

I guess I just don't see the big deal. It may not provide for the most riveting conversation but to me all it is doing is pointing out quirks and trends in the series. It's not like he came out and said the author was a hack or anything. Much ado about nothing as far as I'm concerned and I wonder if it would be that much of a deal if the writer's weren't among us.

 

[BillJ]

I do think Ben Sisko needs to consider his thread titles a bit more carefully in the future.

 

[Sho]

Again, that fans should be free to criticise the books without fear of peer pressure is a legitimate want, but it matters how you do it. It's a fact that writers are a part of our community, so if you're going to post consider how it is going to make them feel just as much as it will make non-writers feel. I am not suggesting that writers should be given special treatment. On the contrary, you should be considerate towards the entire community, including them.

For a writer this means that they need to accept that criticism will be posted, because that is being considerate, respectful and empathetic toward the needs of the fans in the community.

I already said I don't think the reaction was great because it was escalating, but there is no denying it happened in response to provocation.

And for historical context, a few months back I opened a thread on "author's trademarks". It was not meant as a rant thread, but came to feature complaints about Mr. Mack's supposed overuse of the word "Stygian". I suspect he's simply tired of that topic now. Though it's fair to point it that Ben Sisko is a relatively ne member and probably unaware.

 

[Use of Time]

Again, that fans should be free to criticise the books without fear of peer pressure is a legitimate want, but it matters how you do it. It's a fact that writers are a part of our community, so if you're going to post consider how it is going to make them feel just as much as it will make non-writers feel. I am not suggesting that writers should be given special treatment. On the contrary, you should be considerate towards the entire community, including them.

For a writer this means that they need to accept that criticism will be posted, because that is being considerate, respectful and empathetic toward the needs of the fans in the community.

I already said I don't think the reaction was great because it was escalating, but there is no denying it happened in response to provocation.

And for historical context, a few months back I opened a thread on "author's trademarks". It was not meant as a rant thread, but came to feature complaints about Mr. Mack's supposed overuse of the word "Stygian". I suspect he's simply tired of that topic now. Though it's fair to point it that Ben Sisko is a relatively ne member and probably unaware.

Yeah, I'm not sure there is anybody here arguing with you on that.

Also, it's kind of funny that David's first response in that thread you linked is to call someone's comment bullshit. haha.

 

[Sho]

^ Yay consensus!

 

[doubleohfive]

If you ask me, David Mack has gone far too easy on BenSisko and those maligning his work.

Part of having an interaction with the creator of the fiction or art you read or enjoy carries with it the chance that even if you don't like it or complain about it, you will have an artist or writer who will defend their work.

These writers post here I'm sure out of personal interest in the subject matter but also because it is beneficial to their work to be here and interact with us. I consider this a boon of my membership here. And while there are some writers I disagree with often (Christopher usually ) they all nonethless have my utmost respect, particularly for their work as writers. Especially Christopher.

The other thing to consider is that these people are professional writers. If BenSisko is such a great writer, why the fuck isn't he a bestselling author? Why aren't we discussing his books in a thread all about his canon?

Now you're going to say - "Oh, so in order to criticize a book, we have to have written one?" And to this I say of course not. But there is a measure of truth to it. You want to be taken seriously and not get slapped down with the big guns, offer up your criticism in a polite and constructive way that invites a dialogue with the writer. Sure, they may still tell you to fuck off, but then that makes them the asshole. Too, until you yourself have sat down and written and published a novel -whether original or tie-in, it doesn't really matter- you really don't have a lot of wiggle room when it comes to being a jerk about your criticism. (Ironically, the same thing goes for criticizing how tv shows and movies are written and produced as well.)

The glorious thing about the internet age is that everyone's opinions can now be known across the information superhighway, reaching untold numbers of strangers, if but for the very purpose that one person has that opinion to share. That is a wonderful, amazing thing. But for someone like BenSisko, whose posts here and in other threads has consisted of vehement, nonsensical and repeated and derogatory attacks against David Mack, I do not feel one iota of sympathy for BenSisko. Nor do I expect David Mack or Terri fO or Christopher or KRAD or any of the other writers here to just sit there and take it up the ass because OMFG WE ARE THE FANS! WE HAVE A VOICE! IT SHALL BE HEARD!

Fuck that noise.

You want to dish out vitriol, be ready to get it slapped right back in your damn face. If BenSisko or the rest of you can't handle the mild response from David Mack, then perhaps you really should learn to shut the fuck up.

Or -- God forbid -- invest in some lessons in constructive criticism instead of just blathering on like spoiled fools.

 

[Pavonis]

I have to agree with doubleohfive and David Mack's comments. Maybe BenSisko thought he was riffing on his last thread's joke, but it wasn't funny the first time around. It has worn thin now.

 

[Biffette]

But for someone like BenSisko, whose posts here and in other threads has consisted of vehement, nonsensical and repeated and derogatory attacks against David Mack, I do not feel one iota of sympathy for BenSisko.

Was he attacking David Mack in either thread? I have not read any ST novels from the past decade and BenSisko did not cite his sources. Were all the quotes from David's novels?

 

[doubleohfive]

According to David Mack's post above, yes:

David Mack said:

First, each instance you've cut and pasted is from a different book.

 

[Biffette]

David Mack wrote that each quote is from a different book. Not that each quote is from a different book of his.

 

[LightningStorm]

Rudeness isn't cause for warnings, neither is excessive bitching. No one gets a warning in this thread, much to apparently many's annoyance, but such is life.

In order to prevent future warnings, looks like it's time to shut this thread the fuck up.