Not liking it

[TngFan01]

I liked the genuineness of tng such as the movie Insurrection about doing the right thing. I understand ds9 was looking to blur that line, but not a fan of that concept.

I was about ready to give praise for the war in season six, but then the worm hole aliens interviened and destroyed the dominion ships.. really? I was looking for a better end to that conflict.

No one should have to make a decision like that in Children of Time, there's no right answer imo. So what's the point? Apparently to show that Odo will do anything for Kira. And they're not even in a relationship.

Magnificent Ferengi glorifies lying and cheating.

The writers seem obsessed with the idea that the same person can be either genuine or evil depending on the life you live as shown in the recurring alternative universes.

I give props for good writing but do not agree with a lot of the plots.

I should note I still have season 7 to watch.

 

[Terok Nor]

DS9 is a different beast to TNG. It's not a bad thing.

I agree about the dumb wormhole aliens castrating the war arc in Season 6 though.

 

[Tosk]

Sorry you're not digging it, but that's how it goes I guess. It's not for everyone.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I personally find TNG boring and self-righteous and prefer the action/drama of DS9 and TOS while others prefer VOY or ENT, for their own reasons.

 

[DonIago]

I'm afraid this thread lost me from the very first sentence. I must have missed the part where INS was about doing the right thing...but no reason to get into that discussion again.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That's how I felt in 1998. I changed my mind later.

I like that DS9 put the group in less morally straightforward situations than TNG. I prefer critical analysis of moral decisions than just automatic principles. Like, why should the heroes only be placed in situations with a clear moral imperative? Have you ever had clear moral imperatives?

One thing that makes DS9 unique is that it isn't either completely moral like TNG or completely amoral like Game of Thrones. Characters possess the same utopian ideals as TNG but they are placed in extreme situations where strict application of those morals will result in cultural annihilation. So it has a strong moral backbone but analyzes it critically instead of preaching it.

I agree about the prophets stopping the fleet.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I was about ready to give praise for the war in season six, but then the worm hole aliens interviened and destroyed the dominion ships.. really? I was looking for a better end to that conflict.

It was a cop out, but that was an end to the battle, not the war. What kind of ending would you have been looking for instead?

No one should have to make a decision like that in Children of Time, there's no right answer imo. So what's the point? Apparently to show that Odo will do anything for Kira. And they're not even in a relationship.

I love Children of Time. It shows the great sacrifice they (the few) would all be willing to make for their descendants (the many), with Kira adamant that it was her time and that all those lives shouldn't have been thrown away for her. As for Odo's feelings, a lot of people care so deeply for another (without being in any kind of romantic entanglement) that they would do anything for them.

Magnificent Ferengi glorifies lying and cheating.

Who hasn't lied or cheated once in their lives about something, for better of worse. It's a part of what makes us human and is epitomised by the Ferengi (who are essentially us).

The writers seem obsessed with the idea that the same person can be either genuine or evil depending on the life you live as shown in the recurring alternative universes.

Nature vs. Nurture. TNG made a whole (awful) film about it.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I was about ready to give praise for the war in season six, but then the worm hole aliens interviened and destroyed the dominion ships.. really? I was looking for a better end to that conflict.

There is actually a pretty cool story arc in Star Trek Online about those ships. It helps when you realize that we never see the Prophets destroy anything. Their big thing is they do not exist linearly in time.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

There is actually a pretty cool story arc in Star Trek Online about those ships. It helps when you realize that we never see the Prophets destroy anything. Their big thing is they do not exist linearly in time.

Always thought a story of the prophets de-evolving the genetic manipulation and moving them elsewhere in time would make a great novel. (Like they did with Zek).

 

[hux]

Love DS9. The first two seasons are pretty weak but it's a powerhouse of a show after that.

 

[Relayer1]

Love DS9. The first two seasons are pretty weak but it's a powerhouse of a show after that.

Yup.

Best Trek show by a mile.

 

[MacLeod]

Well someone doing something for someone who they love even if they don't love them back is not unheard of.

Our experiances shape us into who we are, would you be the same person you are had you grown up in a more rural area, a more urban area etc...?

The Ferengi might not see anything wrong with lying and cheating so long as they come out on top. Different culture.

And isn't there sometimes in real life no right answer?

 

[Greg Cox]

No one should have to make a decision like that in Children of Time, there's no right answer imo. So what's the point?

As opposed to, say, Kirk having to choose between letting Edith Keeler live or fixing the timeline? Or having to choose between killing his best friend or risking his ship?

STAR TREK has never been about the heroes winning every time or never dealing with moral ambiguity. Sometimes "doing the right thing" is far from clear-cut or easy to figure out . . .and DS9 is hardly the first Trek series to realize that.

See also Charlie X, Anton Karidian, the Salt Vampire, etc.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

As opposed to, say, Kirk having to choose between letting Edith Keeler live or fixing the timeline? Or having to choose between killing his best friend or risking his ship?

STAR TREK has never been about the heroes winning every time or never dealing with moral ambiguity. Sometimes "doing the right thing" is far from clear-cut or easy to figure out . . .and DS9 is hardly the first Trek series to realize that.

See also Charlie X, Anton Karidian, the Salt Vampire, etc.

You want to talk about how ambiguous TOS could be: Private Little War.

 

[Jetboogieman]

That's how I felt in 1998. I changed my mind later.

I like that DS9 put the group in less morally straightforward situations than TNG. I prefer critical analysis of moral decisions than just automatic principles. Like, why should the heroes only be placed in situations with a clear moral imperative? Have you ever had clear moral imperatives?

One thing that makes DS9 unique is that it isn't either completely moral like TNG or completely amoral like Game of Thrones. Characters possess the same utopian ideals as TNG but they are placed in extreme situations where strict application of those morals will result in cultural annihilation. So it has a strong moral backbone but analyzes it critically instead of preaching it.

I agree about the prophets stopping the fleet.

Very well said indeed.

At the end of the day, the whole thing just felt more... real.

And I think Bashir summed it up well in Past Tense:

"If push comes to shove, if something disastrous happens to the Federation... if we are frightened enough, or desperate enough... how would we react?" - Bashir

Those words proved to be rather foreboding as we ended up seeing just how certain elements within the Federation and even Sisko himself was willing to act with the Morphogenic Virus and In The Pale Moonlight.

I don't think even Picard would have gone that far.

and by the way, that's real rich he uses Insurrection as his example for "Doing whats right" when Picard simply followed orders in Journeys End.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Hit and run OP with little but canned complaints. Time to ignore it.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Well someone doing something for someone who they love even if they don't love them back is not unheard of.

Our experiances shape us into who we are, would you be the same person you are had you grown up in a more rural area, a more urban area etc...?

The Ferengi might not see anything wrong with lying and cheating so long as they come out on top. Different culture.

And isn't there sometimes in real life no right answer?

I'm not a fan of moral relativism arguments but I like seeing Quark's perspective on Federation morals. How humans judge Ferengi for reminding them of their dirty past, only humans used to be much worse. And also his observations that the Dominion never attack Ferengi ships.

 

[Kor]

DS9 is the only one of the spinoffs that I ever really revisit these days. I appreciate the way it subverts the Utopian gobbledygook of TNG and makes you think about things in more nuanced ways.

Kor

 

[DonIago]

I'm introducing friends to Trek, and we're at season 6 of TNG and season 1 of DS9, and I find myself really impatient to get to the end of the season, where DS9 starts coming into its own.

 

[Relayer1]

I'm introducing friends to Trek, and we're at season 6 of TNG and season 1 of DS9, and I find myself really impatient to get to the end of the season, where DS9 starts coming into its own.

It's a tough sell going through in order. I showed my son a few select later episodes first.