Not designed for women

[Miss Chicken]

i have just finished reading Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez. It is an excellent book and a real eye opener for me.

On aspect of life that it covered was how various products were designed for the average man, often overlooking women entirely.

For example, the newer IPhone is too big for the average woman to use one handed, even though women buy iPhones more often than men do.

Police armour is not designed for women and because they have breasts it tends to fit women poorly.

Though men are more likely to be in car accidents, women who are in accidents tend to have a higher death rate and injury rate than men because the safety features are designed for the average man.

I looked around my house for examples of things that are poorly designed for my use and the first thing I thought was my bathroom cabinet. I am renting and a few years ago my bathroom was given a makeover and that included a new cabinet. Though I was in the house when it was placed on the wall I was not asked about where I wanted it placed and as a result it was put at unsuitable height. I cannot see the bottom of my face in it unless I stand on my toes. If it had been place three inches lower me and my average height sons could have all used it without any problems. Also I cannot open the childproof section as my fingers are too short. I have average size fingers for a women.

So I am asking women here what problems you have when it comes to the design of different products? Or for the men here, what problems can you think of that the women in your life have?

 

[Timewalker]

I have difficulty using the bottom shelf of my kitchen cupboards. Using the top shelf is out of the question. They're too high, and because of my mobility issues, ladders and stools are unsafe.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Yes, I have trouble with quite a few of the cupboards in my house. I usually have to get my sons to get things down because like you I have trouble using a foot stool due to arthritis. The top shelves in supermarkets are also a problem. Most men can reach them but many women cannot.

One of the things mentioned in in the book was phone app that sent alerts if it detected someone falling. The app seemed to be working for men but not for women and the reason was because most women’s clothing does not come with pockets large enough to hold a phone so women keep their phones in their handbag mean that falls were not detected when women were at home.

 

[Timewalker]

Yes, I have trouble with quite a few of the cupboards in my house. I usually have to get my sons to get things down because like you I have trouble using a foot stall due to arthritis. The top shelves in supermarkets are also a problem. Most men can reach them but many women cannot.

One of the things mentioned in in the book was phone app that sent alerts if it detected someone falling. The app seemed to be working for men but not for women and the reason was because most women’s clothing does not come with pockets large enough to hold a phone so women keep their phones in their handbag mean that falls were not detected when women were at home.

Most women's clothing doesn't come with pockets, period.

 

[Miss Chicken]

^^^ Yes, that is true and it is strange because most women seem to want to have pockets.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

That's something I noticed, as well. So, during a time in my life when I was very short on cash, I actually wore an old pair of trousers from my mom. They were basically black suit trousers, so they wouldn't have drawn a lot of attention for me wearing them. But they did not have pockets.
I can't even think of a reason why that is the case, why wouldn't you put pockets on trousers? Do they just assume that women always carry their purse, so they wouldn't need the pockets? Seriously, why not put them on, just in case.
Btw, they did not have the Women's Slacks Effect from The IT Crowd.

Okay, for those that didn't catch me mention it before, I work in a sex shop, and what surprised me when I started out eight years ago was how often sex toys for women would feature attractive naked women on the packing. I was thinking, this was not what would attract the target audience, would it? A woman's o-face, sure, but the T&A?
But then I noticed that there are still a lot of old men being sent to the sex shop by their women to buy one of them vibrators.
There's still a lot of women who won't step into a sex shop.

 

[Miss Chicken]

^^^ Sex Shops were one thing that was not mentioned in the book though the shape of women’s vaginas were.

One of the saddest chapters dealt with disaster and disaster relief. Women are more likely to be killed in natural disasters than men are. One of the reasons is that women are more likely to be inside. However another reason is that women are sometimes unable to make use of disaster shelters for cultural reasons ie women not being allowed into a place where men they are not related to are. So women are forced to weather the disaster outside of the shelter.

 

[think]

So was doing this in the book? this would freak me out if a women was giving me a ring like this //// but IDK is this off topic? IDK..

 

[Miss Chicken]

Nothing like that is the book though, seeing fingers and fingernails in the photo, does remind me of how the book spoke of the very serious health hazards women who work in nail salons are exposed to.

 

[think]

It is bad conditions in the salon--- I put on one finger nail painted polish every third Sunday of the second month after a blue moon...and let me tell you that smell gets me buzzed... I try to get away from it but it is on my finger... ahhhhh serious heath hazard they have the press on nails that are oh so cool ... ,,, I think we should errr women should switch to press on nails but but glue IDK I just see them worn -... is all. ===

 

[Tenacity]

why wouldn't you put pockets on trousers?

Fashion, without pockets slacks won't have bulges where the pockets would have been, they lay smooth.

When I wear pants they're usually boys jeans and so I don't have the no pocket problem.

Cars are a problem, I raise the driver's seat to the point the bottom of the steering wheel lightly touches my thighs, and I still don't have a good field of vision.

On the plus side, I do have lot's of head room.

 

[Timewalker]

Pockets are absent on women's clothing mostly because they "ruin the line" or the "cut" of the garment. Or if you see a woman's shirt that looks like it has a pocket, you should double-check to make sure it's not just a decorative fake pocket.

As for purses... some of them are like hauling around a duffel bag. I guess that's to accommodate women who carry tablets or Kindles with them everywhere, not to mention water bottles and a bunch of other stuff. Many of them have lots of pockets... but most of the pockets are too small or not meant for actual everyday use, as they're too flimsy, or things keep falling out.

 

[PSGarak]

Seat belts for sure. They never fit properly, and let me tell you, when you're in a wreck, they are murder on breasts.

When I was a police officer, they tried to insist that all of us carry Smith&Wesson 4040s as duty weapons. Nothing against the guns, except they are way too large for most women's hands, so our accuracy at the firing range was utter shit. Had to put up with a bunch of male officers making snide comments about us until they finally wised up and let us pick our own weapons. Once I had a Glock 17 I smoked all of those asshole's scores and never let them live it down since they had been such dickheads about it. Gee, who'd have thought that if you can't hold the butt and get a good pull on the trigger because the distance is a little too long, it will fuck with your accuracy?

I'm not a short woman, and I still have difficulty with the height of some trucks with standard tires, getting in and out.

A LOT of drug tests are conducted only on men, despite the fact that it is well known that the female body responds to and processes most medication very differently from a man's. Most pain medications either flat out don't work on me at all or make me loopy as hell. Most OTC stuff for anything doesn't work on me at all.

The first house we bought was custom built by the owners. He was 6'5" and she was 6'. The cabinets in that house were stupid high.

Slightly tangential issue. Make it pink and charge $5-10 more for an otherwise identical product like razors. /sad trombone

 

[Miss Chicken]

There was a whole chapter on the fact that drug tests being conducted on men and not women. The reason drug researchers often gave was that women’s hormonal cycle disrupted tests as if women aren’t affected by hormonal fluctuations when they actually take drugs after the drugs have been approved.

Thinking more about this I thought of my top loading washing machine and the fact that I can not reach the bottom of the tub and have to use tongs to get small items out. If I ever buy another washing machine I am going to check to make sure this isn’t a problem.

I am about 1/2 inch shorter than the average woman.

 

[Butters]

Pockets are absent on women's clothing mostly because they "ruin the line" or the "cut" of the garment. Or if you see a woman's shirt that looks like it has a pocket, you should double-check to make sure it's not just a decorative fake pocket.

As for purses... some of them are like hauling around a duffel bag. I guess that's to accommodate women who carry tablets or Kindles with them everywhere, not to mention water bottles and a bunch of other stuff. Many of them have lots of pockets... but most of the pockets are too small or not meant for actual everyday use, as they're too flimsy, or things keep falling out.

That’s what I was about say. Women’s clothes tend to be figure hugging and highlight the curves. The lack of pockets drives my wife mad, but would many prefer a look that comfortably accommodated a packet of fags, a purse, a phone, a set of keys and a packet of mints? It would be a whole new fashion style, would it catch on?

 

[Timewalker]

Slightly tangential issue. Make it pink and charge $5-10 more for an otherwise identical product like razors. /sad trombone

Michael's (a craft store) sells tool sets for women (who knew Martha Stewart had a line of tool kits?). They contain the usual stuff like scissors, hammers, screwdrivers, pliers, etc. The handles are hot pink, and the price is insane. I bought identical stuff from the hardware department of Walmart for much less (had to make do with yellow handles on the screwdrivers, though).

That’s what I was about say. Women’s clothes tend to be figure hugging and highlight the curves. The lack of pockets drives my wife mad, but would many prefer a look that comfortably accommodated a packet of fags, a purse, a phone, a set of keys and a packet of mints? It would be a whole new fashion style, would it catch on?

It's amazing how much stuff you can put in a small space. Back in my time with the Society for Creative Anachronism I learned how to carry money, kleenex, house keys, notebook and pencil, and medication in a small belt pouch. Of course that was back in the '80s and '90s before people were also expected to carry phones, cards (debit/credit), water bottles, and mini-computers with them.

Of the stuff I listed above that fit into my belt pouch, most of it could also fit into the front pocket of the lumberjack shirt I wore as a jacket in the '80s. The medication fit as well, if I used a much smaller container.

That shirt was one of the most useful things my dad ever gave me. It had been his, and he'd gotten it from someone else when he was much younger. It wasn't fashionable by any means - a dull green and black plaid, frayed at the hem and cuffs, but it was super-comfortable and that pocket let me carry everything I needed for a casual quick errand, or even working backstage at the theatre (it would have been asking for theft if I'd brought a purse with me since I couldn't keep it with me at all times). Add a pen and penlight clipped to my shirt, and I was good to go.

 

[Spot's Meow]

Slightly tangential issue. Make it pink and charge $5-10 more for an otherwise identical product like razors. /sad trombone

Reminds me of the "girl Legos" set I was purchased as a kid. The same Legos, just in pink, purple, and white. More expensive, of course. It was just annoying, even as a 10 year old.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

only the other day I read a report that the mortailty rate in women with a heart attack is twice as high as that of men because many hospital doctors are not aware that heart attacks cause different symptoms in both genders. And also, women are tougher and hesitate to call an ambulance.
Personal prob: at my office we got protective clothing only in men's sizes. But women have breasts and hips so that we had to get jackets 2-3 sizes larger than we'd normally wear. Result: the sleeves can be worn as gloves.
(Fortunately, last week a colleague from a different office showed me that now there are jackets in ladies' sizes available. I think my female colleagues and I will suffer an inexplicable series of accidents with barb wire in the immediate future.. )

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Do any of you use one of these grabber reacher tools? My mom uses them all the time and it really helps.

 

[auntiehill]

12 out of the 38 NASA astronauts are female but space suits are only made in men's sizes: men's medium and large. In March, what was to be the first all female space walk was cancelled because they didn't have enough space suits to fit them.