Nostalgia for the 24th Century

[Voth commando1]

With regards to Star Wars I know it had its origins in Flash Gordon serials. And skeptical audiences might only see space pew pew and weird mumbo jumbo but it's more there is depth and philosophy-Campbell, luminous beings we are, and so on. The Old EU had a tremendous amount of worldbuilding with novels like HTTE pushing plot structures beyond movie limitations and series like NJO having far more mature thematic arcs and points. Traitor being the shining example. Disney treats it as another marvel franchise to be endlessly rebooted and sustained with nostalgia and female protagonists.

 

[Trekkin]

Disney treats it as another marvel franchise to be endlessly rebooted and sustained with nostalgia and female protagonists.

The fucking horror.

Can someone point me to the Marvel movie with the female protagonist? In the ocean of dongs, I've somehow managed to miss it. *Crosses fingers* Pleasepleaseplease say it's She-Hulk or Kamela Khan.



Waaaaaaitaminute. There were enough people outside of the tiny Marvel uber-nerdom that knew enough about Thor, Iron Man, Doctor Strange etc, for those movies to profit off nostalgia? And by 'knew,' I mean 'were aware those characters existed!?'

How the fuck did I miss that during my school years? I could have been cool.

 

[fireproof78]

With regards to Star Wars I know it had its origins in Flash Gordon serials. And skeptical audiences might only see space pew pew and weird mumbo jumbo but it's more there is depth and philosophy-Campbell, luminous beings we are, and so on. The Old EU had a tremendous amount of worldbuilding with novels like HTTE pushing plot structures beyond movie limitations and series like NJO having far more mature thematic arcs and points. Traitor being the shining example. Disney treats it as another marvel franchise to be endlessly rebooted and sustained with nostalgia and female protagonists.

I don't think Disney is quite that way. They have allowed Lucasfilm group to have a great deal of freedom with what they want to do with the brand, and Kathleen Kennedy has been the main driving force behind that tone.

The Old EU, like anything else, had its ups and downs, and the new one will have that as well. There just has only been a year for that to start being established. It may not be perfect, but that's ok.

 

[Kevman7987]

I don't think Disney is quite that way. They have allowed Lucasfilm group to have a great deal of freedom with what they want to do with the brand, and Kathleen Kennedy has been the main driving force behind that tone.

The Old EU, like anything else, had its ups and downs, and the new one will have that as well. There just has only been a year for that to start being established. It may not be perfect, but that's ok.

That has bothered me so much about "fans" since Disney bought Star Wars and produced episode 7, loud-mouths are up in arms about it way too quickly. It's only been one year. Come back to us after "Episode 9: The Force Dozes on the Couch" & "Bubba Feet: A Star Wars Story" before you complain about how the entire new trilogy is garbage. I like the new films, uncanny valley and all. Hell, I'm happy that the Lucasfilm freedom allowed Rogue One to

Spoiler: Here Be Secrets

kill the entire cast on-screen, one at a time.

Spoiler: Moar Secrets

I hope Disney releases the version where they all survive too; as sort of an alternate ending for the Blu-Ray or something.

I loved the old EU as much as anyone else did. I was upset after Disney erased it, but after time I was able to admit that most of it wasn't good. And thankfully, they are finding a way to rework some of it's best ideas and characters back into the universe, like Thrawn on Rebels. Though I will always be disappointed in the fact that Ben Skywalker and Jaina Solo are probably gone forever.

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm not a fan of reboots period, if a franchise is moribund than let it die don't reboot it every generation.

No Ben Hur for you then?

 

[Voth commando1]

That has bothered me so much about "fans" since Disney bought Star Wars and produced episode 7, loud-mouths are up in arms about it way too quickly. It's only been one year. Come back to us after "Episode 9: The Force Dozes on the Couch" & "Bubba Feet: A Star Wars Story" before you complain about how the entire new trilogy is garbage. I like the new films, uncanny valley and all. Hell, I'm happy that the Lucasfilm freedom allowed Rogue One to

Spoiler: Here Be Secrets

kill the entire cast on-screen, one at a time.

Spoiler: Moar Secrets

I hope Disney releases the version where they all survive too; as sort of an alternate ending for the Blu-Ray or something.

I loved the old EU as much as anyone else did. I was upset after Disney erased it, but after time I was able to admit that most of it wasn't good. And thankfully, they are finding a way to rework some of it's best ideas and characters back into the universe, like Thrawn on Rebels. Though I will always be disappointed in the fact that Ben Skywalker and Jaina Solo are probably gone forever.

Most wasn't good? Have you been spending too much time on IO9?

 

[Kevman7987]

Most wasn't good? Have you been spending too much time on IO9?

I admit most might be overkill, but it varied in quality wildly. Didn't mean I didn't read it anyway.

Look at the Callista Trilogy or the "Crystal Star" with Waru, the inter-dimensional Jell-O monster/demi-god on a space-station, compared to the New Jedi Order series or the Thrawn pentology. There are only so many times you can read about the Solo twins being kidnapped by psychos trying to become Imperial warlords before you start to think maybe some of these books aren't very good.

 

[Voth commando1]

I admit most might be overkill, but it varied in quality wildly. Didn't mean I didn't read it anyway.

Look at the Callista Trilogy or the "Crystal Star" with Waru, the inter-dimensional Jell-O monster/demi-god on a space-station, to the New Jedi Order series or the Thrawn pentology. There are only so many times you can read about the Solo twins being kidnapped by psychos trying to become Imperial warlords before you start to think maybe some of these books aren't very good.

Callista combined some sci fi concepts with mysticism. Waru was fun. Thrawn and the NJO are the heights of SW and space opera in general.

 

[Kevman7987]

Callista combined some sci fi concepts with mysticism. Waru was fun. Thrawn and the NJO are the heights of SW and space opera in general.

Damnit. I had almost tamped down my feelings for the old EU in a sort of Kolinahr-type way until you forced me to face them again...

 

[Ithekro]

The thing is that Lucasfilm's wiping of the EU has also allowed them to reintroduce those concepts and characters into the story. Taking the best elements and casting off the rest. Or perhaps saving the rest for later. We don't know what direction the new Trilogy is heading, since even with Star Wars and the Phantom Menace you couldn't quite tell were the story was going until The Empire Strikes back and Attack of the Clones. With the Disney backed EU-canon we are getting a lot more stories told visually via TCW and Rebels, and well as their being more potential for more stories to be told via animation as that department seems to be increasing at Lucasfilm. Add to this that all the Lucasfilm departments and projects are now talking to each other far more often in a joint effort to make a larger whole galaxy spanning story setting where thing connect and don't contradict each other (as often) as they started to do by even the late 1990s prior to the coming of the prequels.

But it is relatively early yet. Well will see what they can do after 2020. That will be interesting to see what they want to do post-sequel trilogy.

 

[Voth commando1]

Damnit. I had almost tamped down my feelings for the old EU in a sort of Kolinahr-type way until you forced me to face them again...

I suppose that means you didn't like it.

Which I guess you have the right to your opinion but given that, I sincerely hold the opinion your opinion is grievously mistaken.

 

[Voth commando1]

I admit most might be overkill, but it varied in quality wildly. Didn't mean I didn't read it anyway.

Look at the Callista Trilogy or the "Crystal Star" with Waru, the inter-dimensional Jell-O monster/demi-god on a space-station, compared to the New Jedi Order series or the Thrawn pentology. There are only so many times you can read about the Solo twins being kidnapped by psychos trying to become Imperial warlords before you start to think maybe some of these books aren't very good.

Heck I would have loved to have seen Waru in TOS.

Any way yes quality varies like anything but I loved the EU, 30,000 years of IU history, multiple wonderful characters, amazing force powers, great battles, romances, moments of epicness, violence, fun, the theme of cycles.

 

[BillJ]

Heck I would have loved to have seen Waru in TOS.

Any way yes quality varies like anything but I loved the EU, 30,000 years of IU history, multiple wonderful characters, amazing force powers, great battles, romances, moments of epicness, violence, fun, the theme of cycles.

And those stories haven't went anywhere.

 

[KelisThePoet]

The thing is that Lucasfilm's wiping of the EU has also allowed them to reintroduce those concepts and characters into the story. Taking the best elements and casting off the rest. Or perhaps saving the rest for later.

That's exactly what Lucas did with the prequels and The Clone Wars. He (and his creative team) took some elements he liked while ignoring and contradicting others. But while he was doing so, the Lucasfilm of the time didn't feel the need to officially de-canonize the Expanded Universe and re-brand it as "legend," so I'm confused why this Lucasfilm under Disney felt the need to do so.

And I don't have strong feelings about this particular move on Lucasfilm's part; because even when I was much more of a Star Wars fan than I am now, I tended to dip my toe sporadically in the Expanded Universe. I disliked most of it (yes, most), and even the stuff I considered the best (Thrawn) didn't ever fully fit with cinematic Star Wars to me. So, I don't have strong feelings about this particular move; but it does fit with a larger current trend I dislike in Hollywood genre fiction of feeling the need to officially, overtly reboot everything all the time.

And my preference for a selectively ignored Expanded Universe over an officially rewritten one demonstrates my point that my resistance to reboots has nothing to do with a desire to preserve some perfect continuity or canon. On the contrary, I find a big, messy, mythic, self-contradictory fictional universe a much more fun place to play than a series of unrelated rebooted universes that never touch each other, each with their own barely troubled consistency.

 

[BillJ]

That's exactly what Lucas did with the prequels and The Clone Wars. He (and his creative team) took some elements he liked while ignoring and contradicting others. But while he was doing so, the Lucasfilm of the time didn't feel the need to officially de-canonize the Expanded Universe and re-brand it as "legend," so I'm confused why this Lucasfilm under Disney felt the need to do so.

Likely it was done to create a new jumping on point for the next generation of Star Wars fans they hope to cultivate.

 

[KelisThePoet]

And the next generation couldn't just ignore the older stuff they didn't want to read (probably weren't even aware existed), without specific reassurance that it would have nothing to do with their Star Wars? Why is this current, particular next generation regarded by Hollywood as so extremely terrified of or else repulsed by anything with any connection to a past?

 

[Voth commando1]

And the next generation couldn't just ignore the older stuff they didn't want to read (probably weren't even aware existed), without specific reassurance that it would have nothing to do with their Star Wars? Why is this current, particular next generation regarded by Hollywood as so extremely terrified of or else repulsed by anything with any connection to a past?

Damn marketers and their demographic surveys. I'm 19 years old and I can appreciate the past.

 

[Greg Cox]

Damn marketers and their demographic surveys. I'm 19 years old and I can appreciate the past.

Whereas I'm a card-carrying member of AARP and got used to reboots a long time ago.

My new goal is to someday novelize the remake of a movie I've already novelized!

 

[fireproof78]

The thing is that Lucasfilm's wiping of the EU has also allowed them to reintroduce those concepts and characters into the story. Taking the best elements and casting off the rest. Or perhaps saving the rest for later. We don't know what direction the new Trilogy is heading, since even with Star Wars and the Phantom Menace you couldn't quite tell were the story was going until The Empire Strikes back and Attack of the Clones. With the Disney backed EU-canon we are getting a lot more stories told visually via TCW and Rebels, and well as their being more potential for more stories to be told via animation as that department seems to be increasing at Lucasfilm. Add to this that all the Lucasfilm departments and projects are now talking to each other far more often in a joint effort to make a larger whole galaxy spanning story setting where thing connect and don't contradict each other (as often) as they started to do by even the late 1990s prior to the coming of the prequels.

But it is relatively early yet. Well will see what they can do after 2020. That will be interesting to see what they want to do post-sequel trilogy.

Exactly so. The move to have the EU become legends means those stories can still be enjoyed, read and passed on, while new stories can come in without people feeling like they have to read or are missing something. Which, to be honest, is how the EU got for me. I had a coworker who I would read a book or watch an episode of Clone Wars and then asked him how it all fit together. There was just so much and I finally gave up. I couldn't keep up and the introduction of the Vong and Darth Krayt, or the Legacy series was completely insane to me.

I suppose that means you didn't like it.

Which I guess you have the right to your opinion but given that, I sincerely hold the opinion your opinion is grievously mistaken.

I think you misread his point, though I wouldn't speak for him. My take on it was one that he had some positive feelings as well and discussing them brought up that nostalgia.

@Kevman7987 , please correct me if I'm wrong. If so, I sincerely apologize.

And those stories haven't went anywhere.

Precisely so. It's an odd opinion that becoming "Legends" means ceased to be entertaining or relevant.

Whereas I'm a card-carrying member of AARP and got used to reboots a long time ago.

My new goal is to someday novelize the remake of a movie I've already novelized!

I want both copies then, autographed.

 

[Greg Cox]

I want both copies then, autographed.

Believe it or not, this is not as far-fetched as it sounds. They are starting to reboot stuff--DAREDEVIL, MORTAL KOMBAT, GHOST RIDER--that I worked on before.

Can the CUTTHROAT ISLAND reboot be far behind?

(Yes, I edited the novelization of CUTTHROAT ISLAND, which I am perversely proud of.)