"Nope."

[Holdfast]

Yeah, like others said here, you have to follow the chain of command in these situations. Mailing your portfolio and resume unsolicited wouldn't earn you many brownie points in my book. My thought as the recipient would be, "Don't we have people who screen this kind of stuff?". Obviously, this company did.

That being said, the response you got sucked. It wouldn't have taken long to send a polite note, as opposed to the quick "Nope" that made this boss look like a complete tool and the company seem very unprofessional. I don't care if it's a quick note like the one you got, or a much longer letter, never write something with your signature on it that puts you and/or your company in a bad light.

This is exactly my take on it.

The CD was annoyed at seeing effectively spam email in his inbox. I suspect he may have meant the reply to go back to the fellow who forwarded, but either way it's pretty irrelevant from your perspective as you're not getting a job there either way. It's a silly reply to send out if he did mean it to go to you, of course, for the reasons mentioned in the post I quoted.

Re: the "always follow up" or not debate. Personally, I tend to think it's a waste of time, esp. if you're applying to a company with more than about, say, five employees.

Below that size, it's possible they're able to take a personal interest in you as a candidate, they may not have had a lot of candidates as they probably can't offer a competitive salary/package, and they may be growing rapidly and so be able to keep you in mind for a future job.

Above that size, your follow-up ends up in a giant inbox read by someone with no actual decision-making authority, won't bother to make a note of you either positively or negatively, and hasn't time to reply back. In other words, it becomes a fruitless formality rather than a way of retaining a connection.

I also would not expect to get a formal rejection note from a company these days. The lack of an offer is enough if it's a relatively low level post or you didn't get to the short-list/interview stage.

I'm sure there are national/cultural and field-specific aspects too, but that's the way I read it here.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'd send back an email saying:

"Chuck Testa?"

(Also, you probably wouldn't want to work for such a shithead anyway.)

 

[Mr Awe]

Hey, Flux, I don't know what the reply means. I think emailing back for a clarification was the correct thing to do: nope they weren't received or nope, not interested?

Either way, it was unprofessional communication and it's probably for the best not to work there. If they treat people that way when you're not even depending on them, imagine how they'd treat you if you were dependant on them?

Best of luck with the job search. It's very tough out there. You may have the perfect qualifications and yet they may have received hundreds of applicants with the perfect qualifications. Keep building your portofolio with relavent volunteer work, in addition to any paid work you can secure, as you continue to search. Keep at it. I know it can be tough but eventually you'll break through with persistance.

Mr Awe

 

[Goliath]

But you guys are right; after the email I immediately thought to myself, "Well, I wouldn't want to work for that asshole anyway. Bullet = dodged."

Kind of like aiming a revolver at your own head, and missing.

 

[voyagergrl3193]

Is it possible that even a region of the job market this specific is falling prey to overcrowding and competition?

This is exactly how it is in Madison, Wisconsin, which is a pretty tech-savvy town. Basically, if you don't receive any sort of follow-up, you were rejected.

For example: In mid-April 2011, my company posted an opening for a part-time graphic designer (as we're a non-profit, we don't have the money for an FT designer). We received 231 applications. Out of those, I think something like 25 made it to the phone screen process, and nine made it to interviews. The people who went through phone screens but didn't make it to interviews received ding letters, while the interviewees who didn't get the job received personalized ding letters. And that's in Madison.

This is a different era of job searching. It's not like six or seven years ago, when the customary closure to a cover letter was to say something like, "Thank you for your consideration, and I will follow up with you sometime within the next week." Essentially every job sector is completely saturated right now.

The way you followed up, Flux, probably torpedoed whatever chance you had at consideration. Not only did you re-send your application materials again with a "just making sure you got this" (polite or not, hiring people generally see that as rude), but you then started sending them to other people, beyond the scope of the application instructions that were given to you. There's being hungry for a position, and then there's going too far.

In this market, with the flood of applications coming in for nearly every position under the sun, the best practice is to submit your materials, then shut up and wait. If you don't hear anything, then let it go. One of the absolute worst things you can imply to a hiring manager is, "Hurry up and tell me."

I sympathize, because this market sucks out loud right now. Good luck to you -- but learn from your experience in this case.

This has been pretty much my experience as well. I applied for what seemed like hundreds of jobs last year when I was looking for work, and I only got two interviews, one rejection letter in the mail, and one rejection letter by email. The vast majority of the time, I sent my resume out into the dark mass of internets never to be heard from again. My elders would often give me advice on how I should be following up in all these different ways, and handwriting thank you notes for every time I sent in a resume, and going there in person to formally introduce myself, etc. Most of the advice I did not find relevant to my job search at all. It is how I did my job searches several years ago, but now everything is done online and nobody wants to be bothered with your thank yous or check ins, and in fact it makes you look too desperate and irritating in their eyes. Some fields may differ of course, but that was my experience.

When something is meant to be, it will happen quickly and will feel more effortless. I went months without hearing a word from any place I applied (made me wonder if the internet I was using was the same as everyone else's), but then I got three interviews within one week; with one of them they called the night before and scheduled it for the next morning, then hired me on the spot and I started my paperwork and the actual position the next day. It's funny how that works, everything (good or bad) seems to happen all at once. It's the waiting part that is difficult.

The same thing with me, however it was with my resume. Some people suggest you have an objective, whereas, others suggest having a Summery on the top of your resume. I was always taught to have an objective in college but right now I'm kinda questioning it.

And it's the same thing with me..I'm job searching right now without much success, mind you, and have gone to almost every place here in town..they always say the same things: apply online. Both Mom and Dad have been offering me advice and its really frustrating when I tell them what the others have said..it's like they don't believe me or something. Some people suggest following up and others don't because it makes you sound too desperate. How do you follow-up correctly without making you sound desperate to find a job?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

That email you received was really unprofessional...but honestly, in this economic environment where candidates for pretty much any job opening are in the triple digits, a lot of people simply don't care about those rejected for the job. Further, there are so many candidates that they do not even have to pretend that they care. Because no matter what kind of douchebaggery they display, they will still have in the triple digit number of applicants for the next opening as well.

I was unemployed for 17 months with a sterling resume and a ton of experience in companies that are household names. And for the first few months, I was shocked at the brutality of the market and how badly well-meaning, qualified candidates were treated.

I'm not anymore.

 

[TerokNor]

Oh my, that really was an rude answer! Never will understand why some people tread people that way...they cannot be very empathic, can they?

Feeling a bit scared now. 17 months on job search PKTrekGirl? And written over 100 application DerangedNasat? Oh... will be on job search myself in April...

TerokNor

 

[Mr Awe]

This is exactly how it is in Madison, Wisconsin, which is a pretty tech-savvy town. Basically, if you don't receive any sort of follow-up, you were rejected.

For example: In mid-April 2011, my company posted an opening for a part-time graphic designer (as we're a non-profit, we don't have the money for an FT designer). We received 231 applications. Out of those, I think something like 25 made it to the phone screen process, and nine made it to interviews. The people who went through phone screens but didn't make it to interviews received ding letters, while the interviewees who didn't get the job received personalized ding letters. And that's in Madison.

This is a different era of job searching. It's not like six or seven years ago, when the customary closure to a cover letter was to say something like, "Thank you for your consideration, and I will follow up with you sometime within the next week." Essentially every job sector is completely saturated right now.

The way you followed up, Flux, probably torpedoed whatever chance you had at consideration. Not only did you re-send your application materials again with a "just making sure you got this" (polite or not, hiring people generally see that as rude), but you then started sending them to other people, beyond the scope of the application instructions that were given to you. There's being hungry for a position, and then there's going too far.

In this market, with the flood of applications coming in for nearly every position under the sun, the best practice is to submit your materials, then shut up and wait. If you don't hear anything, then let it go. One of the absolute worst things you can imply to a hiring manager is, "Hurry up and tell me."

I sympathize, because this market sucks out loud right now. Good luck to you -- but learn from your experience in this case.

This has been pretty much my experience as well. I applied for what seemed like hundreds of jobs last year when I was looking for work, and I only got two interviews, one rejection letter in the mail, and one rejection letter by email. The vast majority of the time, I sent my resume out into the dark mass of internets never to be heard from again. My elders would often give me advice on how I should be following up in all these different ways, and handwriting thank you notes for every time I sent in a resume, and going there in person to formally introduce myself, etc. Most of the advice I did not find relevant to my job search at all. It is how I did my job searches several years ago, but now everything is done online and nobody wants to be bothered with your thank yous or check ins, and in fact it makes you look too desperate and irritating in their eyes. Some fields may differ of course, but that was my experience.

When something is meant to be, it will happen quickly and will feel more effortless. I went months without hearing a word from any place I applied (made me wonder if the internet I was using was the same as everyone else's), but then I got three interviews within one week; with one of them they called the night before and scheduled it for the next morning, then hired me on the spot and I started my paperwork and the actual position the next day. It's funny how that works, everything (good or bad) seems to happen all at once. It's the waiting part that is difficult.

The same thing with me, however it was with my resume. Some people suggest you have an objective, whereas, others suggest having a Summery on the top of your resume. I was always taught to have an objective in college but right now I'm kinda questioning it.

And it's the same thing with me..I'm job searching right now without much success, mind you, and have gone to almost every place here in town..they always say the same things: apply online. Both Mom and Dad have been offering me advice and its really frustrating when I tell them what the others have said..it's like they don't believe me or something. Some people suggest following up and others don't because it makes you sound too desperate. How do you follow-up correctly without making you sound desperate to find a job?

Objectives and summaries in the resume itself are generally not needed and can detract if you are submitting it with the cover letter. The cover letter should perform those functions. If you don't submit it with a cover letter, then it's probably good to include one.

Mr Awe

 

[Owain Taggart]

And soon, résumés will even be a thing of the past for some companies, relying instead on a person's web presence. I found this article pretty interesting:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email...AyMDIwNDEyNDQyWj.html?mod=wsj_share_email_bot

 

[FPAlpha]

And it's the same thing with me..I'm job searching right now without much success, mind you, and have gone to almost every place here in town..they always say the same things: apply online. Both Mom and Dad have been offering me advice and its really frustrating when I tell them what the others have said..it's like they don't believe me or something. Some people suggest following up and others don't because it makes you sound too desperate. How do you follow-up correctly without making you sound desperate to find a job?

Had the same thing with my parents, especially my dad when i was last searching for a new job. He basically said "Son.. you need to get your resumee and go to their office and knock on their door.. that online thing is flaky and not widely used i'm sure"

Last time he went looking for a job was the early 70s, when Germany had a state of virtual full employment, he quit his job and drove over the river to a huge chemical corporation, went inside and got a job the same day.

For some reason he refuses to believe that some things have changed over 40 years and that online applications are now the standard because they save time and costs.

He's still not convinced even though i found my new job within 6 weeks online (could have been faster but i did nothing for two weeks just to relax a bit).

 

[1001001]

I know we've had the same problem, in terms of volume of applicants. One of the things we do when we advertise is clearly state the minimum qualifications (usually a specific degree, certification, or license). These standards are required by our grants, and are non-negotiable.

What happens is people are told by friends, or job coaches, to "take a chance" and apply for job even though they don't meet the minimum standards. Our ads always clearly state that "if you don't meet the minimum job requirements, please do not apply. You will not receive a response." People do it anyway.

In that situation, no they do not receive any kind of answer. They've already been told the answer.

I think another issue is that with unemployment so high, people apply for any job to show a job search to maintain their benefits. In other words, they don't care about the requirements (or the response for that matter). They just want to show applications to their benefits office.

Now it sounds to me like neither of these were the case here. You're well qualified, and sincere in your interest. That's when it really hurts, especially getting a "nope" as an answer.

Honestly, if it was me, I would print our the response, and send it with a brief letter to the person in charge of the company. I'd say something like "I realize I am not being considered for the job, but I just thought you should know how qualified applicants are being treated by your company."

It won't help you get the job, but it might make you feel better. And maybe, just maybe, the boss doesn't know what a rude jerk this guy is. If I found out one of my managers sent that, they'd be in my office for an ass-chewing pretty damn quick.

Bottom line: the job market is still terrible, and there's a lot of competition out there. Next time, I'd just follow the instructions and wait. When you're seen as pushing, they might interpret that as being impatient rather than enthusiastic. It can also be interpretetd as not respecting their time. JMHO

Good luck.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Honestly, if it was me, I would print our the response, and send it with a brief letter to the person in charge of the company. I'd say something like "I realize I am not being considered for the job, but I just thought you should know how qualified applicants are being treated by your company."

Excellent suggestion.