Noonian v. Noonien

[Christopher]

The December 13, 1966 Second Revised Final draft of "Space Seed" consistently spells the name as Noonien.

Okay, then. That suggests that Bjo Trimble misspelled it in the Concordance, and that misspelling became an encyclopedic error when it was quoted in other sources (as occurred with other Concordance errors such as giving Dr. Boyce's first name as Joseph, and with Okuda Encyclopedia errors like "Neela Darren" and "ShirKahr"). But somewhere along the line, it was determined that "Noonien" was the correct spelling, and that's what's been used ever since.

Meanwhile, in my ongoing search for the origin of the name "Noonien," I decided to try some alternate spellings. I thought I had a lead when I got results for "Nunien" as a Latin word, but it turned out that was Google Books' OCR system misreading numen (and in one case flumen). Clearly some bugs in that system. I found a couple of references to "Nunian" as a Welsh surname, as well as "O'Nunian," which is apparently Irish. (And it was looking like there was a "Nunian calendar," but that's apparently another Google Books misreading -- for "Numan calendar" -- that's already metastasized to other sites. More encyclopedic error.)

Ahh, here's something: "Nunia" is apparently a name found in India, as a surname, a place name, or a feminine given name. (It's no doubt coincidence, but I found a Classmates.com page for a high school whose alumni/ae include a Kim Singh and a Nunia Singh.)

So I suppose it's possible that "Noonien" could be a variant spelling of a variant name, maybe a masculine counterpart of "Nunia."

 

[Therin of Andor]

That suggests that Bjo Trimble misspelled it in the Concordance, and that misspelling became an encyclopedic error when it was quoted in other sources

Yep. Bjo also has mentioned that she had access to some, but not all, scripts (eg. how she knew about planet Neural) and was given batches of incomplete Desilu and Paramount call sheets, in which character and actor names are sometimes typed, and sometimes handwritten, leading to unanswered questions about correct spellings - and a few cases where minor characters' actors and stunt people were listed only by surname.

And sometimes a character and actor is listed in call sheets but the filming was abandoned, or the scene cut for time. Barbara Baldavin was cast as Yeoman Baker in "Space Seed", for example (according to a "Space Seed" call sheet), but we don't know at what point her lines were cut.

 

[Therin of Andor]

there are typos in the "Encyclopedia". (There are also many typos in all Concordance versions.)

Here's a similar one.

I'm sure Mrs Troi and Deanna first referred to the "Sacred Chalice of Riix", but by the end of Season One we also met the Bolian Captain Rixx. From then on, the Betazoid artifact was usually spelled "Rixx".

 

[JD]

I'm not completely sure where the script comes from, but the on one Trekcore has it written as Rixx in "Haven", Lwaxana's first season appearance.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm not completely sure where the script comes from, but the on one Trekcore has it written as Rixx in "Haven", Lwaxana's first season appearance.

Mmmm. I have a Lincoln Enterprises' "Haven" script here somewhere...

 

[foravalon]

And for the record Therin is correct and Christopher is incorrect.

It was an accident. Honestly.

Honestly, I'm not even sure what you two were talking about. It was mostly just a general statement.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

Okay, somehow this page has gone wonky on my computer. A few moments ago, I read a post by Therin wondering where Barbara Baldavin's Yeoman Baker character appeared in the "Space Seed" script. When I logged in to reply, suddenly a bunch of posts are gone!

Anyway, to answer that post, Baker has a scene with McGivers fairly early in the script. I reproduce the cut dialog in my review of the script (first link in my sig).

Sir Rhosis

 

[Therin of Andor]

Anyway, to answer that post, Baker has a scene with McGivers fairly early in the script. I reproduce the cut dialog in my review of the script (first link in my sig).

Yes, I know, and someone has, at some point, added those lines to Memory Alpha - although until yesterday, Barbara Baldavin's supposed casting (as catalogued by the "ST Corcordance") was not on MA.

Does Ms Baldavin appear anywhere in the background scenes of "Space Seed"?

Honestly, I'm not even sure what you two were talking about. It was mostly just a general statement.

Me: Just teasing, being silly.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

^^^I'm not at home right now, thus I don't have access to the script, but iirc, Baker turns up again as the "court recorder" at Khan's final hearing.

Will check back in a day or so.

Sir Rhosis

 

[alchemist]

The December 13, 1966 Second Revised Final draft of "Space Seed" consistently spells the name as Noonien.

Okay, then. That suggests that Bjo Trimble misspelled it in the Concordance, and that misspelling became an encyclopedic error when it was quoted in other sources (as occurred with other Concordance errors such as giving Dr. Boyce's first name as Joseph, and with Okuda Encyclopedia errors like "Neela Darren" and "ShirKahr"). But somewhere along the line, it was determined that "Noonien" was the correct spelling, and that's what's been used ever since.

The error may have been introduced when the Concordance went "commercial." I just checked my original 1969 fan-produced version (compiled and written by Dorothy Jones and edited by Bjo Trimble, Mathom House Publications) and the name used is Khan Noonien Singh.

 

[alchemist]

Blish commonly used much earlier drafts than the final shooting draft, which is what Lincoln Enterprises/Roddenberry.com sells. I found an online reference the other day that stated that the versions Blish used no longer seem to exist.

Ah, here: Memory Alpha says "Due to the lead times required for publication of print books such as these, James Blish was forced to use the only scripts available from Desilu promotions, which were draft scripts that had been discarded. As many of these draft versions have been lost in the years since the series ended, Blish's adaptations are now seen as valuable resources for those researching how the early episodes evolved from script to film."

I think this is overstated. Undoubtedly Blish used a few non-final versions of scripts for his work, but the majority of his adaptations (and lets not forget that he did use his artistic license in writing them) sync pretty well with the final (or revised final) scripts, even down to the scenes that were filmed but cut. In fact, with some of his adaptations, he omitted the scenes that were filmed but cut. One example episode that comes to mind is A Taste of Armageddon.

 

[Therin of Andor]

iirc, Baker turns up again as the "court recorder" at Khan's final hearing.

Yes, I know, in the script. But has anyone spotted her onscreen?

 

[Christopher]

I think this is overstated. Undoubtedly Blish used a few non-final versions of scripts for his work, but the majority of his adaptations (and lets not forget that he did use his artistic license in writing them) sync pretty well with the final (or revised final) scripts, even down to the scenes that were filmed but cut. In fact, with some of his adaptations, he omitted the scenes that were filmed but cut. One example episode that comes to mind is A Taste of Armageddon.

Well, it depends. The ones he wrote in early years were often wildly divergent from the aired episodes; not only was he working from early scripts, but he incorporated original ideas of his own from time to time, particularly in the first one or two volumes (even cribbing a couple of concepts from his own original SF). But as years passed, and as fans grew more familiar with the episodes from countless reruns and demanded fidelity, the adaptations grew more faithful to the aired episodes.

"A Taste of Armageddon" was originally adapted in Star Trek 2 in 1968. It actually omits a lot from the episode, keeping the viewpoint exclusively with Kirk and leaving out all the shipboard and Ambassador Fox scenes. In Blish's version, Fox doesn't beam down and get captured; he stays on the ship until after Kirk destroys the computers, and is then beamed down at the end of the story to begin working on a treaty. So if any filmed-but-cut scenes were omitted, it would've just been as a coincidental part of the general streamlining.

 

[alchemist]

Well, it depends. The ones he wrote in early years were often wildly divergent from the aired episodes; not only was he working from early scripts, but he incorporated original ideas of his own from time to time, particularly in the first one or two volumes (even cribbing a couple of concepts from his own original SF). But as years passed, and as fans grew more familiar with the episodes from countless reruns and demanded fidelity, the adaptations grew more faithful to the aired episodes.

Agreed. But I did a spot-check of my final and/or revised final draft scripts (including the ones with cut scenes) and found that they correlate pretty closely (more or less) with the majority of Blish's novelizations.

"A Taste of Armageddon" was originally adapted in Star Trek 2 in 1968. It actually omits a lot from the episode, keeping the viewpoint exclusively with Kirk and leaving out all the shipboard and Ambassador Fox scenes. In Blish's version, Fox doesn't beam down and get captured; he stays on the ship until after Kirk destroys the computers, and is then beamed down at the end of the story to begin working on a treaty. So if any filmed-but-cut scenes were omitted, it would've just been as a coincidental part of the general streamlining.

I can't argue with that. Taste was probably not the best example. I guess that's a reason why the Trek scholars need to be careful in using Blish's novelizations as "valuable resources for those researching how the early episodes evolved from script to film." It may be too difficult to separate his work from the original scriptwriter's work.

Best,

Dave

 

[Daddy Todd]

iirc, Baker turns up again as the "court recorder" at Khan's final hearing.

Yes, I know, in the script. But has anyone spotted her onscreen?

I took a look at the end of the episode -- Uhura activates the recording computer before the hearing, and I don't see any extras in the scene that might be "Baker," so she doesn't appear in that scene. I didn't watch the entire episode, so it's possible she walks through another scene.

 

[Mysterion]

The error may have been introduced when the Concordance went "commercial." I just checked my original 1969 fan-produced version (compiled and written by Dorothy Jones and edited by Bjo Trimble, Mathom House Publications) and the name used is Khan Noonien Singh.

There are some oddities in later editions of the Concordance.

The mid-90's version (Citadel Press?) has mention in the Sulu entry that he'd been a communications officer. I have absolutely no idea where that comes from (and I've looked for clues and found none).

 

[Christopher]

The mid-90's version (Citadel Press?) has mention in the Sulu entry that he'd been a communications officer. I have absolutely no idea where that comes from (and I've looked for clues and found none).

Hmm, that is weird. The entry cites "ME" -- the code for "The Menagerie" -- as the source for that assertion, and Sulu wasn't in "The Menagerie," either the original pilot (subsequently renamed "The Cage") or the 2-parter.

 

[Mysterion]

The mid-90's version (Citadel Press?) has mention in the Sulu entry that he'd been a communications officer. I have absolutely no idea where that comes from (and I've looked for clues and found none).

Hmm, that is weird. The entry cites "ME" -- the code for "The Menagerie" -- as the source for that assertion, and Sulu wasn't in "The Menagerie," either the original pilot (subsequently renamed "The Cage") or the 2-parter.

You get why I was doing all the head-scratrching. If I ever given the chance, I'd love to ask Ms. Trimble about this.

 

[Therin of Andor]

You get why I was doing all the head-scratrching. If I ever given the chance, I'd love to ask Ms. Trimble about this.

She does sort of address this in the preface to the revised "ST Concordance". After numerous lengthy delays, over many years, the final galleys suddenly had to be updated and proofread in a big hurry. Some of the last minute cross-checking spelling of names, and attributing of episode codes, was being done by Kathryn Trimble, Bjo's now-adult daughter. Katwen, as she's fondly known by a lot of SF convention fandom, was oxygen-deprived at birth - she functions at about the level of a 8-12 yo - and has been an enthusiastic Star Trek fan and helper all her life. A few odd typos got through during her watch.

 

[SpaceLama]

Vowels are often left out of Indian spellings - so for example something like avatar would be spelt avtr - and the reader automatically adds the 'a' sounds between the letters.

But, the vowel that is introduced, is not officially there, so it could be spelt in English as avatur, avater, etc. Even Punjabi is sometimes spelt Panjabi for example.

Indian culture is facinating.