Should the Ferengi people shun Nog? He was the first to not follow business but instead join the Hu-mans in Starfleet. His own family should be ashamed.
Nog an Outcast?
- Thread starter c0rnedfr0g
- Start date
Yes he should be, along with Zek, Moogie and Rom. All of them should be outcast and then the real Ferengi turn the Ferengi back into the proud and mighty race they once were and are destined to be; not lame carbon copies of hew-mons that Zek, Moogie and Rom turned them into.
I agree. More naked babes!
I'm pretty sure that Nog WAS outcasted by the other Ferengi on the station even before he joined Starfleet because he was younger.
After the end of DS9, though, I'm fairly sure that the Ferengi he encounters will at least be polite to him - after all, he IS the son of the Grand Nagus...
After the end of DS9, though, I'm fairly sure that the Ferengi he encounters will at least be polite to him - after all, he IS the son of the Grand Nagus...
Was he really the first to shun business, though?
Probably not, as we know that there are many Ferengi ways to respectably earn a profit. A military career, or a career in piracy (if there's a difference), seems perfectly acceptable as such, and OTOH there is no stigma in boldly jumping into a new line of business if one's instincts so suggest. So perhaps Nog's career move is considered a good stratagem by some Ferengi, a bad one by others, but not particularly stigmatizing in either case.
Associating oneself with aliens might perhaps be considered bad form. But if it's just in order to exploit the aliens for the sake of doing good business, why should anybody complain? Nog is still young, and his secret plans may well pan out in the future, after he has established his niche in this alien space navy.
Timo Saloniemi
Associating oneself with aliens might perhaps be considered bad form. But if it's just in order to exploit the aliens for the sake of doing good business, why should anybody complain? Nog is still young, and his secret plans may well pan out in the future, after he has established his niche in this alien space navy.
Timo Saloniemi
i meant he was the first to join Starfleet, and in the process shunned business (not necessarily the first tho)
I'm sure Nog's family is very proud of him (perhaps with the exception of Quark, though I'm sure that somewhere deep down he's at least somewhat proud of Nog) but then again they aren't a normal Ferengi family.
I would imagine that if Nog was any other Ferengi he would be shunned, but being the son of the Nagus has its benefits.
I would imagine that if Nog was any other Ferengi he would be shunned, but being the son of the Nagus has its benefits.
How "businesslike" are the lives of those Ferengi who serve aboard the warships of the Ferengi Union (or its military subsidiaries, or whatever), I wonder? Apparently, it's perfectly all right for a respected and wealthy Ferengi or his son to seek fame and fortune aboard such a vessel, as the case of DaiMon Bok in "The Battle" shows. And there's no indication that the other DaiMons, or the crewmen sucking up to the boss and seeking to replace him one day, would have been outcasts, either.
I'd still argue that there's no stigma to choosing "military business" over, say, lingerie business or beverages business or equities business. There might be stigma to being member to an alien organization, though, be it Starfleet or the Bank of Bolarus.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd still argue that there's no stigma to choosing "military business" over, say, lingerie business or beverages business or equities business. There might be stigma to being member to an alien organization, though, be it Starfleet or the Bank of Bolarus.
Timo Saloniemi
IIRC, in "The Magnificent Ferengi" wasn't that Ferengi assassin considered loopy for not wanting profit? I'm not sure.
In Rom's case well, here's two possible scenarios:
A) Seek profit and be a good Ferengi citizen.
B) Be an outcast and married to Leeta.
I don't know about you but I'd pick scenario B every time!
Robert
In Rom's case well, here's two possible scenarios:
A) Seek profit and be a good Ferengi citizen.
B) Be an outcast and married to Leeta.
I don't know about you but I'd pick scenario B every time!
Robert
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Maybe being part of the military gets Ferengi a kind of celebrity - they could then use that fame to sponsor product brands and get royalties without doing much business. Quark had some Marauder Mo? action figures, maybe they were based on a popular military Ferengi...just a thought.
Nog's definitely brought his business style to the Federation, even if in covert form. Remember "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River"? I thought that was just classic to hear O'Brien actually talk about the Great Material Continuum like he was starting to see sense in it...
I would think contractors - and subcontractors - are more likely than subsidiaries, bidding for contracts to undertake whatever the Ferengi need warships for. After that, the Ferengi on board are in much the same position as Quark's Ferengi waiters (etc) were.
I thought Nog was a particularly interesting character, I've just watched 'Heart of Stone' and I think the sheer racism that is shown against the Ferengi by Starfleet officers in DS9, particualrly Sisko, is deplorable. From making Quark kiss the staff in The Search to excusing Nog's mysogny as 'He's Ferengi, he doesn't know any better', to turning down Nog's serious request for a recommendation letter for no other reason than he is Ferengi so must be running a scam.
I think it's probably Sisko's least admirable character trait, actually. And especially hypocritical given his anti-racism speech in Badda Bing, Badda Bang.
I think it's probably Sisko's least admirable character trait, actually. And especially hypocritical given his anti-racism speech in Badda Bing, Badda Bang.
I also find that pretty sad, too--especially IF Sisko grew up in New Orleans, if we are supposed to believe he came from a version of the U.S. that has actually managed to move past the kind of racial-division crap that goes on here, then you would think that would extend to the rest of the galaxy.
Or maybe humanity has simply sublimated its worst characteristics into an area where they're less likely to get called on it.
But Sisko and the race issue...I think that could get a whole thread of its own. Honestly, it seemed like the issue only came up when HE brought it up because nobody else gave a rip--and I'd be willing to bet the average Trek fan didn't give a rip either.
Or maybe humanity has simply sublimated its worst characteristics into an area where they're less likely to get called on it.
But Sisko and the race issue...I think that could get a whole thread of its own. Honestly, it seemed like the issue only came up when HE brought it up because nobody else gave a rip--and I'd be willing to bet the average Trek fan didn't give a rip either.
To be sure, racism is perfectly logical, and rational, and useful, and all that stuff. Quark is all of the things he's accused of, and can be expected to remain so in any given situation. Exceptions to the rule would be near-impossible to find in the Ferengidom.
Where the "racism is bad" angle sets in is the part where Sisko fails to see the upsides of the species. The Ferengi are largely nonviolent, prefer to settle disputes through sustainable and mutually beneficial means, and stick to a code of loyalty. Those are "racial" traits as much as the negative ones, and failing to "racistically" point them out at every turn is what Sisko is doing wrong. And what Dax is doing right, for that matter.
Timo Saloniemi
Where the "racism is bad" angle sets in is the part where Sisko fails to see the upsides of the species. The Ferengi are largely nonviolent, prefer to settle disputes through sustainable and mutually beneficial means, and stick to a code of loyalty. Those are "racial" traits as much as the negative ones, and failing to "racistically" point them out at every turn is what Sisko is doing wrong. And what Dax is doing right, for that matter.
Timo Saloniemi
Interesting point, you may well be right about that - I just think it always grated on me how the Ferengi became the butt of every joke and snide remark and how this was accepted as perfectly OK without anyone saying "hey, wait a minute. We're Starfleet officers, we should be above this kind of thing."
Particularly in the third season they seemed to really run with it, and Dax's Ferengi love hadn't come quite to fruition yet to counterbalance it. A shame, and I think it undermines Sisko who in other respects is one of my favourite Trek characters. The 'kiss the staff' scene in The Search is, imho, disgusting.
As you say, the Ferengi have numerous admirable traits over and above many races in Star Trek, but these are totally ignored in favour of emphasising their less admirable qualities and plain old fashioned making fun of them. And the audience is more often than not put in a position where we are supposed to laugh along with the funny-funny superior human characters as they joke about the Ferengi - Little Green Men is an episode where even xenophobic humans from centuries ago are the intellectual superiors of our Ferengi characters, until non-Ferengi Odo shows up to help them.
I realise, btw, that I'm far too invested in this fictional TV show
It just bothers me, is all. Particularly since you read in the companion that there was great debate over a background character just barely audible using the term 'spoonhead' to refer to a cardassian whose out to kill them in Empok Nor because 'a starfleet officer wouldn't be racist'. But the writers created whole episodes around the 'funny, stupid' Ferengi culture.Look at Harry Kim's "we were warned about the Ferengi at the academy" also. I find that line to be even worse. With Quark I can (sometimes!) see Sisko etc as just being mad, having fun at Quarks's expense, not the Ferengi as a whole.
Still it's an interesting subject especially as it shows humans still have something to learn.
Rÿcher
Fleet Captain
Where'd you get your information from? There was never any evidence to indicate he was alienated or shunned by anyone
