"No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surprise."

[Nick086]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

They didn't have any phasers on the bridge somewhere? If anyone should have a phaser it should be the Tactical Officer or Chief Tactical Officer on duty. Since Tactical and Security are a combo post security officers should be armed when they man the tactical station/post. Is there a security station/post somewhere on the bridge?

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

TAS attempted to address this problem in its first eps.
It intro'd the Automatic Bridge Defense System.

Also showed two turbolifts for the bridge, addressing that (perceived) problem of one-access to the bridge.

But TAS never gets any attention or credit, so hey.

when was this?

which ep?

 

[Robert DeSoto]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

To be fair, if Security was more competent a number of episodes would be a lot shorter.

Not necessarily. The Bajoran Militia might not have starships, but their troops can fight. They gave the Klingons quite a hard a time when they tried to seize DS9. We didn't see the Starfleet security officers do a whole lot other than getting shot.

I guess the 50 year ground war against the Cardassians made for some seasoned veterans.

 

[DonIago]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

From a technical standpoint, it's a lot easier to film such sequences in large open sets such as the Promenade than in a starship corridor. IIRC the Bridge and Engineering sets would probably be best suited to any sort of large-scale combat from a TNG perspective. Given advances in tech it may have also been more affordable to do such things by the time DS9 was working on them. TNG certainly couldn't have handled the large-scale space combat, and in general TNG didn't usually have story events that lent themselves to large boarding actions by enemy powers. Best time to do this might have been BoBW, but when the Borg boarded the ship they were only looking for Picard.

The whole Rascals sequence was laughable, though. At least Riker remembered to lock out command functions.

 

[Maestro]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

Fleet Marines. And then post two on the bridge at the lifts at all times. Problems solved. Crap, that means so many eps would have to be written differently.

 

[SchwEnt]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

TAS attempted to address this problem in its first eps.
It intro'd the Automatic Bridge Defense System.

Also showed two turbolifts for the bridge, addressing that (perceived) problem of one-access to the bridge.

But TAS never gets any attention or credit, so hey.

when was this?

which ep?

First animated eps, I believe. "Beyond the Farthest Star" (not to be confused with "Far Beyond the Stars")

The Automatic Bridge Defense System was a dome-thing bristling with phaser emitters. It lowered from the center ceiling of the bridge (which kinda had a dome-like thing anyway). Kind of like a deadly disco ball. I suppose the idea was that any security threat anywhere on the bridge could automatically be targeted and neutralized by phaser, including multiple targets simultaneously.

Also, there was a panning shot of the bridge showing another turbolift door just to the left of the main viewer.
I don't believe we ever saw it used, but at least they addressed the security problem of one-way access to the bridge.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

That (I believe) wasn't a second turbo-lift. The door you mention gives access to a narrow service corridor that circles the bridge behind the consoles. The second door and the corridor are a invention/creation of Franz Joseph's blueprints, the corridor also give access to a stairway going down to deck two and there also a small bridge toilet.

 

[Timo]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

We never learned whether that second door would be a second turbolift, or a FJ-style access door, or perhaps the door to a bridge toilet or a small bridge transporter (both of which were suggested for the Phase II/TMP bridge but never materialized.

For all we know, it held a spare redshirt for when Kirk needed security on the bridge! This didn't happen so often in TAS, after all. (Except once in "Time Trap" where a Klingon captain was suddenly standing in the middle of the bridge, due to an animation error!)

The second door could be a second turbolift if we believe in the "forward facing bridge" theory. If we instead believe in the "rotated bridge theory", then we believe that the only way to fit even one turbolift there is to have it match the positioning of that centerline bulge aft of the bridge dome, in which case the door must lead to a corridor where you will bump your head the first thing after entering.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anticitizen]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

Since Tactical and Security are a combo post

They were separate posts in TNG until Tasha got gobbled up, after which they had Worf do double-duty rather than introducing a new character. As for TOS, well, they seemed to make Chekov the tactical/security officer in the movies, but he was navigator in the series. Memory Alpha has this humorous nugget:

Although he mainly served as the Navigator aboard the USS Enterprise NCC 1701/A, he has had the most variable amount of positions than any other senior crewmember under Captain James T. Kirk.

I actually don't mind this, because, as with modern-day astronauts, virtually every crew member needs to be multi-skilled, so they can cover someone else's role if required in times of duress. In any case, plotting navigational routes is only going to take up a small amount of an officer's time, because most time will pass while they're underway, in which case it's downright sensible to put that officer to good use with whatever's handy and doesn't interfere with his or her other responsibilities.

Now... as for the 'security teams' issue...

Starfleet is a military organization. EVERY crew member should be subjected to 'basic training', just as is every enlisted military officer in today's military. This would include training in use of a firearm, when it's okay to use it, basic tactics, etc, etc. Every crew member aboard a starship is a scientist, historian, navigator, MP, etc, and they're ALSO soldiers who may be given the order to fight at a moment's notice. Instead of calling for security and then standing there defenseless until said security shows up, they should all be armed (or have arms nearby) and be ready to mobilize at any time, and 'calling for security' should be tantamount to calling for backup.

 

[Timo]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

That's not quite how it goes in today's militaries, though. If you train a naval warrior to know a little bit about everything, from gunnery to propulsion to navigation to repelling boarders, you get a warship manned by people who only know a little. An enemy who trains gunners without telling them the first bit about navigation will outshoot you, then.

How much can Chekov really know about "tactical" stuff without compromising his navigational knowhow? How much can he study to become Spock's science station backup before this starts interfering with his navigation skills? Learning isn't a process where stuff is added atop stuff. It's a process where previous skills languish and wither.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Badger]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

Given that there's an armaments locker in the ships galley in TUC, it's a bit odd that there doesn't seem to be one on the bridge.

 

[Anticitizen]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

That's not quite how it goes in today's militaries, though. If you train a naval warrior to know a little bit about everything, from gunnery to propulsion to navigation to repelling boarders, you get a warship manned by people who only know a little. An enemy who trains gunners without telling them the first bit about navigation will outshoot you, then.

How much can Chekov really know about "tactical" stuff without compromising his navigational knowhow? How much can he study to become Spock's science station backup before this starts interfering with his navigation skills? Learning isn't a process where stuff is added atop stuff. It's a process where previous skills languish and wither.

Timo Saloniemi

It may not be that way in contemporary militaries, but it IS that way with astronauts. Besides, I can't imagine that those security team guys sit around for weeks or months doing nothing for those long trips during which nothing happens. Similarly, how often is Chekov really going to spend plotting courses? You do it once, then you're underway for what could be a ten-day journey on that plotted course. A spacecraft is isolated, self-sufficient, and of limited resources, and I can't imagine Starfleet would employ crew members who spend 90% of their time sitting on their hands.

Besides, when the guy at the tactical console or helm gets fried by a Borg beam or whatever, someone absolutely, positively must be able to jump to the console in his place, or they're all dead.

 

[Timo]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

It may not be that way in contemporary militaries, but it IS that way with astronauts

It's difficult to find any commonalities between Starfleet and the astronaut corps. The former is a conventional military service where hundreds or thousands of people serve aboard a space vessel, more than enough for them to be trained solely in a single field of speciality to the great advangate of the organization. The latter trains people to operate spacecraft where three often is a crowd. Had the US space program proceeded the way the 1950s fact/fiction writers and artists saw it, we would have been going to the Moon and Mars in ships crewed by 50 or so, not in capsules crewed by two or three; astronaut training would have been very different in that case, quite possibly organized along the lines of a multi-level command hierarchy (officers vs. crew at the very least) instead of following aircraft cockpit hierarchy.

Similarly, how often is Chekov really going to spend plotting courses?

The very fact that they have a navigator in the first place, with a bridge pulpit of his own, suggests that the position is an important one and in constant demand... Aircraft of old had separate navigators whenever they could, too, as burdening that task on a captain, pilot or flight engineer would have diminished the capabilities of each.

If automation has not replaced starship navigation (or steering, or gunnery, or commanding) by the 23rd century, it seems automation is incapable of doing so!

A spacecraft is isolated, self-sufficient, and of limited resources

OTOH, a starship is isolated, self-sufficient, and of unlimited resources. Star Trek takes place aboard starships, not inside spacecraft.

and I can't imagine Starfleet would employ crew members who spend 90% of their time sitting on their hands.

You don't have to - Desilu did it for you!

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x22hd/spaceseedhd048.jpg

Besides, when the guy at the tactical console or helm gets fried by a Borg beam or whatever, someone absolutely, positively must be able to jump to the console in his place, or they're all dead.

Which is why they appear to have more than one navigator.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anticitizen]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

Well, we'll have to disagree, I guess. To me, Trek seemed to show plenty of people doing double-duty; Chekov, Worf, Spock, etc. Not to mention that the helmsman, navigator, etc would regularly strap a phaser to their hip and join in on some away team fun, which is certainly outside of their primary posts...

 

[Tropical_Night]

Re: "No security teams on the bridge. We must've been taken by surpris

There are hidden phasers on the bridge.
Theres one in a compartment under the security station on the D, I saw worf whip it out a few times, and he's usually wearing one of those mini-phasers one his person.

There was a small phaser locker between Chuckles and Janeways seats on Voyager as well, and I think Tuvok had a locker under his console like Worf, so did Kim as we saw in "Worst Case Scenario" and Paris in other episodes.

I figure it should always have been like Descent, with two security officers on the bridge at the back.