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No Big Bang: Universe existed FOREVER!

Doesn't the Big Bang refer to the universe rather than existence. I get these two mixed up. So couldn't the Big Bang happen (regarding the universe) but steady state apply (regarding existence)

Does that make sense

I think of existence as a concept defined within our universe. It is not well-defined for anything outside of it. Something can't exist if there isn't a universe to contain it. Hence the universe came first. Or at least simultaneously – otherwise it might suffer existential pains.

However, I do think you might have an interesting point. In more abstract terms, the timeline of the universe is the chain of cause-and-effects that lead to what we presently observe. Events following the Big Bang are the cause-and-effects that conform to the known laws of physics, with minor fluctuations around the big bang itself, or so I'm told. This also makes them easy for us to study and understand.

However, you could go beyond that. For example, you could look for a reason why the laws of physics are as they are. Two candidates are random chance and the anthropic principle, which is just random chance with observation bias. If you do come up with a third reason, it could be a "cause" of the laws of physics and therefore be "before" the Big Bang (if you replaced time with causes and effects). Unfortunately, such reason would probably be impossible to falsify, difficult to put in terms we understand, and would barely resemble any real temporal relationships. But you could call it "The Big Would-Bang".
 
I just don't know what's more difficult to wrap my head around: a universe that has existed forever, or a universe that had a beginning (because what was here BEFORE the universe?).

Isn't there a common thought out there that the universe is just like a single cell in a larger body of "universes." If so, it was just like the beginning of a single cell in a multicelled organism.
 
It's food for thought. I'm wondering what the theory says about black holes and if it eliminates singularities completely; if not, then isn't it a statistical certainty that the universe will eventually become a singularity? (Edit: I'm also wondering if, through a Unified Force Singularity or otherwise, the theory allows for the laws of physics to be inconstant.)

Stephan Hawking came out in the past year and said singularities don't exist.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/stephen-hawking-says-black-holes-don-t-exist-012107567.html
 
I'm going to reverse myself and say yes, I can see the viewpoint that the "eternal cycle" is the same thing as "lasting forever." Not that it helps much.

The "heat death" of the universe is still in play though. At present, the universe is not only still expanding, but expanding faster and faster. So much so, that scientists are not calculating a collapse ever. We will just expand until energy becomes unavailable.
 
Fanzob1, rather than making three posts in a row please use the multi quote function. Thanks. :)
 
^^Eh, he's just doing that to quickly increase his rank. I have to resist the temptation to do the same.

The good news is that if we ever figure out time travel, there won't be any problems about going back too far in time, and getting smashed in by an infinitely dense singularity.
 
Everything has a starting point, the creation of life is a prime example. Sex or the Big Bang takes two factors of creation and combines them together that then creates a life that we can't even see without a microscope until later on in the pregnancy.

Even though you might not say that the Big Bang doesn't exist we are proof that it does. Two Non-Relativity related causalities that we don't know exist because we haven't discovered them yet would in my opinion be the cause.

You need to lighten up a little about Einstein and everything because before Newton came along and proved the reason why the apple fell most thought that it was because it didn't want to be part of the tree any longer.

Give non-Einstein theories a chance. Words and Math formulas do not bind or unbind a Universe. They are descriptions of that Universe that if a physics law is broken the fact that it was broken is really not a violation of anything but has been that way far longer than humans have been around.

If everything didn't haven't a starting point then it would have an ending point.
 
If non-Einstein theories can make testable predictions, them I'm sure science is all for giving them a chance. But if those theories are ever falsified and proven wrong, then they won't get a second one.
 
If non-Einstein theories can make testable predictions, them I'm sure science is all for giving them a chance.

What the Global Positioning System Tells Us about Relativity

"But it is important to realize that none of the 11 independent experiments said to confirm the validity of SR [Special Relativity] experimentally distinguish it from LR [Lorentzian Relativity] — at least not in Einstein's favor."

"But of those who have compared both LR and SR to the experiments, most seem convinced that LR more easily explains the behavior of nature."

But if those theories are ever falsified and proven wrong, then they won't get a second one.

Dr. Ed Dowdye: Solar Gravitation and Solar Plasma Wave Propagation on Interaction

No warped space.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnvOybT2WwU[/yt]
 
Its not possible for the Universe to just have been always as it has been. Creation and life does not work that way.

I have never always been I was created from microscopic cells. The same would hold true for the Universe for the simple fact that I come from the Universe and the same processes that created the Universe.
 
I come from the Universe and the same processes that created the Universe.
If we rephrase this as ,"the Universe came from the same processes that created me" then it brings to mind an origin of the universe I'd never considered.

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