Khan's "On Earth, 200 years ago" line in TWOK. Try 300...
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My post here:
https://moviechat.org/tt0050066/Tales-of-Wells-Fargo/5c2c530ec5aa8f67558adbe0/Lola-Montez
States that if the
Tales of Wells Fargo episode "Lola Montez" happens in real history instead of some imaginary wild west, it must happen in or before 1861 and also in or after 1879, which of course is impossible.
My guess is when (and if) anyone checked the script for chronological plausibility they were thinking backwards and figured it would have to be in or after 1861 and in or before 1879, and thus could happen in the period of 1861-1879.
People working on
Star Trek chronology should assume that there is a great danger, for example, of proving that a specific episode must happen before the year 2250 and also after the year 2270, which of course is impossible. To avoid that they should use the broadest possible interpretation of chronological terms.
So when someone says some event was X hundred years in the past, one should not interpret it as being between X hundred and 0.000 and X hundred and 0.999 years. It would be much better to interpret it as X hundred plus or minus 10 years. And it would be even better to interpret it as X hundred plus or minus 25 years, and even better still to interpret it as X hundred plus or minus 33.3333 years, and so on and so on.
The greatest amount of leeway in interpreting X hundred years is interpreting it as (X plus or minus 1) hundred years. And I think that should be the rule for interpreting X hundred year statements in
Star Trek. A chronologist should not try to narrow down the possible date range of
Star Trek as much as possible. They should try to interpret the date range from each piece of evidence as broadly as possible, so that in the end there will be a date range that fits all of the evidence.
So in "Space Seed":
(The ship appears on the viewscreen.)
KIRK: An old Earth vessel, similar to the DY=500 class.
SPOCK: Much older. DY-100 class, to be exact. Captain, the last such vessel was built centuries ago, back in the 1990s.
So if the 1990s go from 1990.000 to 1999.999, and if centuries are 200.001 to 999.999 years, the date of "Space Seed" must be between 2190.000 and 2999.998.
SPOCK: Hull surface is pitted with meteor scars. However, scanners make out a name. SS Botany Bay.
KIRK: Then you can check the registry.
SPOCK: No such vessel listed. Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid=1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.
MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.
SPOCK: Of course. Your attempt to improve the race through selective breeding.
And:
KIRK: I'm not. Oh, I'll need somebody familiar with the late 20th-Century Earth. Here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change. What's her name? McIvers?
At the very broadest, "late 20th century" would mean sometime between about 1950.000 and 2000.999. Obviously Kirk doesn't think that DY-100 class ships were used for very long after they were built.
MARLA: Captain, it's a sleeper ship.
KIRK: Suspended animation.
MARLA: I've seen old photographs of this. Necessary because of the time involved in space travel until about the year 2018. It took years just to travel from one planet to another.
So obviously they don't expect the ship to have been launched any time after about 2018. Marla says:
MARLA: A man from the twentieth century coming alive.
So I guess that Marla thinks that any expedition after about 2000 would use a DY-200 class ship or other more advanced class of ship.
KHAN: How long?
KIRK: How long have you been sleeping? Two centuries we estimate. Landing party to Enterprise. Come in.
Later on the bridge:
KIRK: Kirk out. Seventy two alive. A group of people dating back to the 1990s. A discovery of some importance, Mister Spock. There are a great many unanswered questions about those years.
Kirk assumes that they must have left Earth in the 1990s.
Later, in the Enterprise sickbay:
KHAN: I remember a voice. Did I hear it say I had been sleeping for two centuries?
MCCOY: That is correct.
And later Kirk tells Khan:
KIRK: What was the exact date of your lift off? We know it was sometime in the early 1990s, but
Kirk thinks that he knows that Khan's group left Earth sometime in the early 1990s, so they should have strong evidence so far to think that was the period. Therefore, the statement that Khan had been sleeping for two centuries means for two centuries after the early 1990s.
The early 1990s would be between 1990.000 and 1993.333. Interpreting two centuries as broadly as possible, as 100.001 to 299.999 years, puts the date of "Space Seed" sometime between about 2090.001 and about 2293.332.
Later they discover who Khan is:
(A large picture of their guest in on a screen)
KIRK: Name, Khan, as we know him today. (Spock changes the picture) Name, Khan Noonien Singh.
SPOCK: From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world. From Asia through the Middle East.
So Khan ruled his realm on Earth until sometime in 1996. So Khan must have left Earth sometime after 1996.000.
In
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan there are two statements which indicate that the movie should be about 15 years after the episode "Space Seed".:
KHAN: You are in a position to demand nothing, sir. I, on the other hand, am in a position to grant ...nothing. What you see is all that remains of the ship's company and crew of the Botany Bay, marooned here fifteen years ago by Captain James T. Kirk.
And:
KIRK: There's a man out there I haven't seen in fifteen years who's trying to kill me.
If a computer or Spock said that it was fifteen years, I would say it was between 15.001 and 15.999 years. But since two humans said it, I will assume it was between 14.001 and 16.999 years just to be safe.
Therefore, the year of
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan of should be sometime between about 2101.002 and about 2309.331, if there was no further contact between Kirk and Khan since shortly after "Space Seed".
Khan tells Captain Terrell:
KHAN: Captain! Captain! Save your strength. These people have sworn to live and die at my command two hundred years before you were born. Do you mean he never told you the tale? To amuse your Captain? No? Never told you how the Enterprise picked up the Botany Bay, lost in space in the year nineteen hundred and ninety-six, myself and the ship's company in cryogenic freeze?
This proves that the Botany Bay left sometime in 1996, sometime between 1996.001 and 1996.999. But that doesn't matter too much, since nobody ever states exactly how long Khan & co. were in suspended animation.
Captain Terrell was portrayed by a forty five year old actor. Assuming that Khan estimates that Terrell is between 30.001 and 60.999 years old, Khan should think that Terrell was born between 2040.003 and 2279.33. Assuming that Khan's people swore allegiance to him between 100.001 and 299.999 years before Terrell was born, they would have done so between 1740.004 and 2179.329.
Or "Space Seed" and
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan can be date from the time that the other supermen/augments swore allegiance to Khan. That could have been sometime between about 1960 when they were kids in school together or 1996 when they swore allegiance to Khan so he let them on the Botany Bay.
So 1960.001 to 1996.999 plus 100.001 to 299.999 years equals about 2060.002 to 2296.998, when Khan might assume that Captain Terrell was born, plus about 30.001 to 60.999 years puts
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan about 2090.003 to 2357.997. Subtracting 14.001 to 16.999 years, "Space Seed " would happen about 2029.004 to 2343.996.
Khan also said:
On Earth, ...two hundred years ago, ...I was a prince, ...with power over millions.
Since Khan ruled a large part of Earth from 1992 to 1996, we can calculate that 1992.001 to 1996.999 plus 100.001 to 299.999 years gives 2092.002 to 2296.989 as the range for
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, which thus give 2075.003 to 2282.988 as the range for "Space Seed".
So by interpreting "two centuries" and "two hundred years" as 100.001 to 299.999 years, the date range of "Space Seed" should be 2090.001 to 2293.332, and 2029.004 to 2343.996, and 2075.003 to 2282.988; and the range of
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan should be 2101.002 to 2309.331, and 2090.003 to 2357.997, and 2092.002 to 2296.989.
Combining the three calculations gives a possible date range of "Space Seed" as 2090.001 to 2282.988, a possible range of 192.987 years, and the possible date range of
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan as 2101.002 to 2296.989, a possible range of 195.987 years.
And by doing this for all the productions that give clues about when TOS happens, one can get several such broad possible date ranges for various episodes and movies. And thus there could be a time period where all those ranges overlap for five, ten, or twenty years perhaps, a time period where TOS could possibly happen.
But if you imagine that "two centuries" or "Two hundred years" means 200.001 to 200.999 years, then calculating from 1990.001 to 1993.333 "Space Seed" should be between 2190.002 and 2194.332. If
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan should be 15.001 to 15.999 years lit should happen around 2205.003 to 2210.331.
If Khan's people swore allegiance to him sometime between 1960.001 and 1996.999, Khan should believe that Captain Terrell was born about 2160.002 to 2197.998. If Khan believed that Captain Terrell was about 45.001 to 45.999 years old,
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan should happen about 2205.003 to,2243.997 and thus "Space Seed" should happen about 2189.004 to 2228.996.
If Khan was a prince on Earth between 1992.001 and 1996.999, then
Star Trek II:The Wrath of Khan should happen about 2192.002 to 2197.998, and "Space Seed" should happen about 2176.003 to.2182.997.
So "Space Seed " should happen about 2190.002 to 2194.332, 2189.004 to 2228.996, and 2176.003 to 2182.997 and
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan should happen about 2205.003 to 2210.331, 2205.003 to,2243.997, and 2192.002 to 2197.998.
Since those possible ranges don't overlap, assuming that "two centuries" or "Two hundred years" means 200.001 to 200.999 years, will not work with the date from merely two productions, let alone work with every production which might be used to date TOS and the TOS movies.`
