Well he seems quite proud of the Director's Edition in the booklet for the DVD. Certainly he makes it sound like...wait didn't I just make this post?
Nimoy: TMP Wasn?t Really A Trek Movie
- Thread starter TrekToday
- Start date
It certainly was trashed in the press. Although perhaps none were more scathing (or on-the-mark) as Harlan Ellison's review of the movie.
On the subject of box office performance, it would be helpful to consult Variety from that period. Anyone here have an online subscription?
Eventually and over time, which does not speak to the question of whether the film lived up to expectations at the time of release. The assertion was that you "couldn't tell by its ticket sales figures."
In fact, you could.
Typical - perhaps a little kind, in fact - of the sorts of reviews ST:TMP received was Corliss's piece for TIME magazine. An excerpt:
Pretty accurate.
That doesn't negate that fact that the changes made to the DE don't correspond (exactly) to the changes Wise said he would make circa 1980.
I once felt like this to some extent: the film didn't live up to certain expectations. But over time I realized and accepted TMP wasn't trying to tell that kind of story. Once I realized what kind of story TMP was telling I came to respect and like it a lot more.
No, it's not perfect, but I don't resent it for not being what others want it to be. It's perfectly decent Star Trek in tune with TOS episodes.
In this respect Nimoy is wrong for his assertion.
Twenty years is a long enough time to reconsider your options.
ok, obviously we're not going to agree on the merits of TMP vs. TWOK. I am fully aware however, of what TMP was trying to be-cerebral, serious sci-fi. Unfortunately, the plot was an obvious retread of "the changeling" and it was very slow and padded. Still, great effects and music, though.
I shouldn't be shocked that after all this time, people are still trying to prove that TMP is a good movie and a good Trek movie.
I was there in 1979 with my butt in the seat. Hated it. Boring.
I watched the Extended Cut on VHS tape. Hated it. Boring.
I watched the Director's Cut on DVD. Hated It. Boring.
Give me TWOK, TSFS, TVH and Bad Robot.
I was there in 1979 with my butt in the seat. Hated it. Boring.
I watched the Extended Cut on VHS tape. Hated it. Boring.
I watched the Director's Cut on DVD. Hated It. Boring.
Give me TWOK, TSFS, TVH and Bad Robot.
Good for you. You don't get it. Fine.
Yes, but they kept making a big deal about it being the director's original vision. It's not. It's demonstably not. It's what Wise gave his blessing to 20 years later.
Box Office Mojo has a 'Total Lifetime Gross' figure of
$82,258,456 against a $35 million budget. Not bad, considering the underwhelming reviews.
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek.htm
wow, you responded, without any sense of irony, with the LITERAL cliche response to anyone who doesn't like a movie that someone, correctly or not, regards as "cerebral."
It's an insulting response, implying that if someone didn't like it, they're too stupid to understand its deeper meaning, and all they want is laserguns and explosions.
But get over it. TMP is simply not that cerebral in the first place. Take "the changeling," mix in some 2001, and add an hour of special effects.
Not much to get.
I think that the most important parts of it (editing, SOME additional effects shots) are what Wise would have done given the opportunity. But I think there is also a lot of scribbling in the margins as well. I think most of the sound design has a 2001 rather than 1979 feel. The film needed more sound, just not that sound.
Obviously we all wonder what would really have happened had Wise been given the chance to do a test screening and time to make changes based on that (as was his tradition, I understand).
OTOH, Sound of Music, Andromeda Strain, and Run Silent Run Deep are not exactly taut, seat of your pants thrill rides either.
Oh, btw, TMP was both a huge financial success (offset by the costs of the never-made Phase II television show) and a critical and fan disappointment. Many people have warmed to it over the years. But it has always been considered (generally) to be slow.
And after it aired on television it was considered such an improvement that it was actually released on VHS!
Annnnnnd I still love TMP.
You don't like the film. You don't see anything of value in it. It doesn't reach you in any way. As such we have no common ground for further discussion.
And, no, it's not that cerebral. It's rather easy to understand what the film is talking about. But you, among others, don't care for how it's said. Fine.
Well, that's a little harsh. I see SOME stuff of value in it. As I said before, the effects and music are terrific. Spock's character journey is interesting. Kirk's is also, but not to the same extent.
But yes, I don't care for how it's presented. I just find it needlessly slow, serious, and on the pretentious side. I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't because I didn't get it, but I guess you meant it in a different way than how I took it.
Still, I'm glad it did well, otherwise we'd have gotten no more movies.
Totally get it. Totally not impressed.
Based on what I read in old interviews with Wise what he mostly wanted to do was tighten the picture. I don't think any of the effects shots ever came up in those interviews. In fact, I think it's arguable that the DE could have been done with zero new effects and still worked just as well, as the new effects really don't add much to the movie at all.
As to the sound mix, a lot of the sound effects you hear in TWOK were created for TMP but never made it into the final audio mix, so some of that might have been intended. But some of the changes actually hurt the film: e.g. the V'ger energy bolts actually sound less dangerous in the DE than the theatrical cut.
Most studio films got preview screenings back in the day. It's a pretty standard part of the process. The filmmakers are too close to it, so you want we call "Kleenex Testers" in the video-game biz: use one and toss aside.
Oh, certainly not. I think it's arguable that Wise was the wrong director for this film given that he was old Hollywood in a post-Easy Riders, Raging Bulls Hollywood of Coppola/Lucas/Speilberg/etc. The film needed a sense of energy it just didn't have, and I put that flaw squarely at Wise's feet.
Totally agree with tightening with editing. Mostly agree with FX.
Going from memory I'd say keep the outside shot of the asteroid exploding and the wormhole collapsing. Keep the exterior of the whiplash bolt "depositing" the energy probe. Ummmm... That might be it...
The Vulcan matte painting is debatable to me. I seem to recall that they never really intended to use the one we saw in the movie. I just don't like the SE one they replaced it with. It doesn't look like a 1979 painting.
My problem is not with FX that sound like TWOK it's with the ones that sound like Generations. I'd have LOVED for them to go back to the TWOK sound design and keep the TOS stuff out. (I LOVE the TOS stuff, but they had no intention of using it in 1979.)
Nimoy pretty much nailed everything that was wrong with TMP, and he would know.
Yeah. They went to 3D to do the scene and thus had to plug in a digital Spock and the whole shot jumps out as CGI. The late great Matt Yuricich was working on a painting of Vulcan that's what should have been used. It was hot and arid looking. Why they scrapped it has never been clear to me, despite numerous rumors and suppositions.
When TMP first came out I felt all they needed to do to nod to the original show was keep one or two of the original sound effects, like a toned down version of the door whoosh.
