Next year’s ‘Star Trek’ reboot may have naked aliens and swearing, CBS digital chief says

[stardream]

I don't like looking at naked people and it has nothing to do with religion, morality or shame. I just don't like it. Personal preference. I think people look better with their clothes on.

Having said that...we are assuming these naked aliens are humanoids. It would be funny if they turned out to be amoebas.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Why would an amoeba wear clothes?

 

[Lance]

I don't like looking at naked people and it has nothing to do with religion, morality or shame. I just don't like it. Personal preference. I think people look better with their clothes on.

I've got some empathy with that viewpoint. Naked people are just naked people, clothing is what makes it alluring, therefore sexy. A kind of extension of the infamous Theiss Titillation Theory from TOS. But I agree that falls within the realms of personal preference, and is not the same for everybody.

I've got a feeling this discussion could get real derailed, real quickly!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Keyword = might be necessary. TOS did just fine under standards and practices of 50 years ago. It was no great loss that Kirk's love-scenes faded to black or Angelique Pettyjohn didn't flash her boobs in Gamesters of Triskelion.

Trek tried to push those standards. It was about trying to see what they could get away with.

 

[fireproof78]

Trek tried to push those standards. It was about trying to see what they could get away with.

Did a pretty good too in some instances.

 

[e3jeremey]

For me the bottom line is does it contribute to the growth of the character or the storyline? If the answer is no and the use of nudity or cursing is simply fan service and to draw in views rather than tell a story then I'm out.

 

[RJDiogenes]

If you believe that to be conservatism I don't know how to help you.

If you believe the meme that beauty and sexuality are exploitative and can't be as artistic, humorous, or meaningful as any other aspect of humanity is liberal, then I can't help you.

Women fought for the right to choose, not the right to be used.

More non sequiturs. Nobody is being denied any choices or is being used.

 

[Tenacity]

Why would an amoeba wear clothes?

Pockets.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I'm very much in the wait and see camp, when it comes to every aspect of Discovery.

However in general, I'm not really a fan of nudity and sex on Tv. Most of the time it adds very little, if anything to advancing the story.

 

[Mudd]

Shots of ships flying through space in Star Trek usually add very little, if anything, to advancing the story.

People just like to look at them.

 

[stardream]

Shots of ships flying through space in Star Trek usually add very little, if anything, to advancing the story.

People just like to look at them.

That's true but even that can be overdone.

 

[Spot261]

If you believe the meme that beauty and sex
uality are exploitative and can't be as artistic, humorous, or meaningful as any other aspect of humanity is liberal, then I can't help you.

If I'd said anything even remotely to that effect you might have a point.

More non sequiturs. Nobody is being denied any choices or is being used.

How many times has ST done this and NOT been exploitative?

 

[Christopher]

How many times has ST done this and NOT been exploitative?

I still don't see how that's a meaningful question. The only member of Discovery's creative team who has ever worked on a Star Trek television series before (as opposed to a movie) is Bryan Fuller, who was in a comparatively low-status role on Voyager's staff and not in a position to shape its direction. So what previous Star Trek series have done is irrelevant. Star Trek is not a writer or a producer or a director. It's not the thing that comes up with the ideas. It's the franchise that's worked on by the people who come up with the ideas. So the relevant question is not "What has Star Trek done in the past?" The relevant question is "What have Bryan Fuller and Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts done in the past?" You should be looking at their prior works to see how they've handled gender and sexuality.

 

[Mudd]

That's true but even that can be overdone.

Let's take that chance.

 

[mos6507]

because the only way to sneak challenging social commentary past the censors was to disguise it as some far-off fantasy.

Yeah, it's called being creative. Constraints are a catalyst for creativity.

And it's not like this is anything new. Think of the political subtext behind Gulliver's Travels in the 1700s, really the prototype for Star Trek in the first place. Being indirect and using symbols is a huge part of what art is supposed to be.

But as for the sex aspect in particular...I'll take innuendo like this over a dozen Game of Thrones nude scenes.

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That's why scenes like the above are timeless whereas an old episode of Silk Stalkings or Baywatch is not.

A show that wants to have something meaningful to say is more likely to be able to say it in a forum where there's less censorship.

Again, you keep assuming that the show HAS something meaningful to say. Alice Eve's stripdown was not about having something meaningful to say. The producers could basically institute a boob quota in order to goose ratings/subscriptions, while conveniently hiding behind the plausible deniability that it is so great it is that we live in such a free and liberated society. It's all about having your cake and eating it to.

There's a difference between an opinion and an assumption

We're not putting the producers of Discovery on trial. We're just expressing our hopes/wishes/fears. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Mudd]

Yeah, it's called being creative.

No, that's not it.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, it's called being creative. Constraints are a catalyst for creativity.

They can be, yes, but they can also prevent certain kinds of story from being told. Having more options is better.

But as for the sex aspect in particular...I'll take innuendo like this over a dozen Game of Thrones nude scenes.

That's your choice. But you have absolutely no right to demand that it be enforced on everyone else in the world.

Again, you keep assuming that the show HAS something meaningful to say. Alice Eve's stripdown was not about having something meaningful to say.

You keep assuming it can't have anything meaningful to say. I'm not saying it has to, I'm just saying you can't rule out the possibility sight unseen. You can't judge the taste of a meal that hasn't even been cooked yet.

And what happened in a movie is beside the point. Different formats have different possibilities. Star Trek in movies is a very different animal from Star Trek on commercial television or Star Trek in prose or comics. Different media allow different approaches, and movies have consistently been the shallowest medium for telling Star Trek stories. It stands to reason that the possibilities for Star Trek on subscription streaming video would be as much greater than the possibilities on commercial TV as they have been for Netflix shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage vs. network far like Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter. I doubt many people would dispute that the Netflix Marvel shows have been the smartest, best, most challenging and thought-provoking parts of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. So why should we expect anything different from a Star Trek series that's designed for the same kind of subscription service?

Especially one from a creator as acclaimed as Bryan Fuller. Nobody who's at all familiar with Fuller's work could possibly believe he would be just some ordinary TV hack. His whole career as a show creator has been about pushing boundaries and doing the unconventional and embracing the offbeat. And I can't think of anything he's done as a showrunner that treated sexuality in a puerile and prurient manner.

We're not putting the producers of Discovery on trial. We're just expressing our hopes/wishes/fears. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not hearing "I fear it might be this." I'm hearing "I'm absolutely certain it will be this." You can't let your fear blind you to the better possibilities. That's the whole message of Star Trek, that hope is better than fear.

 

[Skipper]

You know, I can imagine sex scenes and nudity more in a TNG-like situation than in a TOS-one. They always presented the latter as something more professional and similar to modern military: relationship between comrades are possible but not so frequent.

 

[fireproof78]

For me the bottom line is does it contribute to the growth of the character or the storyline? If the answer is no and the use of nudity or cursing is simply fan service and to draw in views rather than tell a story then I'm out.

Exactly this for me.

More non sequiturs. Nobody is being denied any choices or is being used.

That's kind of a non sequitur since we don't know how this is going to be done.
Not enough evidence one way or the other.

Pockets.

Hey, not even TOS uniforms had pockets. This creates a continuity problem right away

I'm not hearing "I fear it might be this." I'm hearing "I'm absolutely certain it will be this." You can't let your fear blind you to the better possibilities. That's the whole message of Star Trek, that hope is better than fear.

I'll be the first to say it then, to be perfectly clear-I fear it might contribute nothing to the story or the characters, that it will become the center talking point of the Trek series and not build up the characters, regardless of who is in the nude.

I hope that they do it well and actually build up the story and the characters without dipping in to gratuitous levels. But, even though past performance doesn't indicate future production, I'm still skeptical that it won't move in to exploitative territory.

 

[stardream]

If there is nudity I'm not going to get all 'OMG NAKED PEOPLE! It's time for the four horsemen, the rain of fire and the end of days!!!!'

I'll probably just put the DVR on pause, wait a few minutes and then fast forward through it...

I don't even like bedroom scenes where you don't 'see' anything and once again it has nothing to do with religion or morality. I just don't like them.

Then there are kissing scenes. Must they make that horrible smacking sound?

I was never much of a shipper.