Next Titan novel announced
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I hope they survived the invasion...
I have no idea, but that question has as much relevance as the topic at hand for the overall subject, you know, the next Titan novel, NOT the fucking Borg.
If United win, Titan continues unmolested, if City win the Borg invade and kill 60 Billion people
I'm around the middle of Seize The Fire - Chapter 13 and while the story isn't very engaging and their seems to be a lot of roundabout talk for the sake of characters talking... I am enjoying the portrayal of the Gorn as a multi-caste species with specific genetic differences between them and their own biases and misinformation regarding the Federation. Gives me hope that one day the Gorn will join the Federation under the ideals for which it actually stands and NOT what they've mistakenly been lead to believe.
This.
I'm not sure, but I think alot of that actually came from the Gorn Crisis graphic novel. I haven't read either one yet, so I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident I read that somewhere.
The Gorn Crisis did establish different castes for the Gorn, but it didn't say they were genetically distinct, because it was written before "In a Mirror, Darkly" came along and gave us a substantially different Gorn design than we'd seen before.
Exactly. So until you can come up with one, how else was Janeway supposed to act when you claim she "betrayed her oath as a starfleet officer - she condemned 60+ BILLIONS to death, people she was sworn to protect"?
You can't blame someone for unanticipated consequences of their actions. People make the best decisions they can at the time, and sometimes those can turn out badly due to circumstances beyond their ability to predict. Say a doctor saves a child's life and that child grows up to be a genocidal dictator who slaughters millions. Did the doctor betray her oath by condemning those millions to death? Of course not, it's a ludicrous and indefensible notion. She fulfilled her oath by saving a life that it was in her power to save, and no reasonable person could blame her for the choices made by a different person at a later time. The only person responsible for killing those millions is the dictator, the one who made the choice to kill them. If you're going to blame the doctor for saving the future dictator's life, you might as well blame all the thousands of people who grew and prepared the food that kept him alive through childhood and maturity, or the people who made the clothes and houses that kept him from freezing to death, or whatever. It's a silly notion.
As far as Janeway knew, destroying the transwarp hub crippled the Borg's ability to reach Federation space or other distant parts of the galaxy. It was impossible for her to predict that only three years later they would stumble across the Caeliar subspace corridors and thereby gain a new shortcut to let them invade the Federation. If that unlikely happenstance hadn't occurred, it would've taken the Borg decades to launch their revenge on the Federation, by which time the Federation would've had a lot more time to prepare. It was bad luck and the Borg's own willingness to destroy that condemned those 60 billion lives.
As far as Janeway knew, destroying the transwarp hub crippled the Borg's ability to reach Federation space or other distant parts of the galaxy. It was impossible for her to predict that only three years later they would stumble across the Caeliar subspace corridors and thereby gain a new shortcut to let them invade the Federation. If that unlikely happenstance hadn't occurred, it would've taken the Borg decades to launch their revenge on the Federation, by which time the Federation would've had a lot more time to prepare. It was bad luck and the Borg's own willingness to destroy that condemned those 60 billion lives.
Another point, Arturis' people from "Hope and Fear" were exterminated by the Borg, they did not have the power to destroy them like the Children of the Storm or the Grigari.
I thought Seize the Fire was good and I look forward to see where Michael takes the crew next.
YMMV.
I thought Seize the Fire was good and I look forward to see where Michael takes the crew next.
YMMV.
There was no perfect solution.
Someone had to die. But Janeway could choose who dies.
There were two options, both fairly predictable:
1 Destroy the transwarp hub and save 7 of 9/unknown civilizations - bringing the collective's wrath on the federation (see the 60 billion dead in 'destiny').
2 Don't destroy the transwarp hub, the federation remaining a low priority for the borg - meaning the borg would continue with their initial plan and the billions of dead (and assimilated, in this case) would belong to other civilizations.
Janeway chose option nr 2 AKA she chose to sacrifice her own civilization in order to save 7 of 9 and others.
If the only choice is between her civilization and others - with NO perfect alternative - Janeway should uphold her oath as a starfleet officer. Her loyalty is owed to the federation, NOT to 7 of 9 and others, to the detriment of the federation.
I stand by my statement BECAUSE there was no perfect alternative, because the federation was too weak to have the cookie and eat it too:
Janeway "betrayed her oath as a starfleet officer - she condemned 60+ BILLIONS to death, people she was sworn to protect"
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Arturis' people were destroyed, yes - but, before that, they managed to hold the borg off for CENTURIES, despite being located near borg space, infested with thousands upon thousands of cubes.
Their resistance to the borg was orders of magnitude stronger than what the federation - most powers from the alpha/beta quadrants, really - managed to muster. Has the federation managed to stop the main borg assault for more than 5-10 minutes, during 'Destiny'?
A highly impressive performance on the part of Arturis's people.
And, of course, the achievements of the children of the storm, grigari, 8472, caeliar are self-explanatory.
It's been awhile since I've seen "Hope And Fear", but I was of the understanding that Arturis' people fled and hid as opposed to holding off the Borg. And their tech seemed to be more defensive, from utilizing particle synthesis to mask parts of the ship from the Voyager crew to using slipstream drive to stay "one step ahead" of the Borg. It does bring to mind the question of why Arturis' people didn't slipstream themselves to the other side of the galaxy from the Borg, to give themselves some breathing room.
I know I'm gonna get whacked for this, but...who or what are the Grigari?
I know I'm gonna get whacked for this, but...who or what are the Grigari?
A race of McGuffins developed by the Reeves-Stevenses to provide plot devices for their novels.
* * *
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how Janeway could reasonably have known that the anti-Borg weaponry from the future would prove unreliable, that the Collective would survive their attempt to disrupt it, and that the Borg would discover subspace tunnels leading straight to the Alpha Quadrant.
Only with 20/20 hindsight.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Janeway is right to alter a seemingly peaceful future to save a single individual?
I'm sure I'll be waiting a while...
EDIT: If it was Kirk who made the same decision, people would be ragging on him for making a shallow, rash decision that showed no forethought on his part.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Janeway is right to alter a seemingly peaceful future to save a single individual?
I'm sure I'll be waiting a while...
EDIT: If it was Kirk who made the same decision, people would be ragging on him for making a shallow, rash decision that showed no forethought on his part.
Also Picard would have saved billions of lives by using Hugh to infect the collective.
By murdering trillions of innocent people enslaved by the Borg. The whole point of the Destiny trilogy was that the drones were not the enemy — the drones were fellow victims. The Borg did not need to be destroyed, they needed to be saved; only the core controlling consciousness eventually had to be dissolved.
Good point and when it's put that way I totally agree with it.
But what actually constitutes being saved?
Picard was only a Borg for a few hours/days and we saw the profound impact that it had on him. Now imagine the impact that being a Borg for years or decades would have on the psyche.
I imagine release would be important whether by being freed or by dying. Picard thought so when he killed one of his on crew who had just been assimilated. And how many more were assimilated between 2368 and 2382 waiting for the Caeliar to come down from the mountain to save the Borg? How many Borg died in that fifteen year period waiting for their salvation?
Even though I disagree with some of the finer points, the Destiny trilogy were some great books.
A race featured in the books 'Federation', 'DS9 Millenium Trilogy', etc.
Sci, watch 'Endgame'.
Janeway&co already knew during the episode that the borg would adapt to transphasics - they determined that, if the queen was not distracted, she would adapt to them even before the transwarp hub was destroyed.
The neurolitic technobabble was meant to distract the queen in order to destroy the transwarp hub - NOT destroy the entire collective; indeed, it performed far better than anticipated by Janeway&co.
The borg had 6 more transwarp hubs - as in, acces to transwarp technology.
It had reliable slipstream from Arturis' people - which should enable it to reach the alpha/beta quadrants in a matter of months.
And god knows what else.
Given these capabilities, it's a small miracle it took the collective as long as it did to get to the alpha/beta quadrants.
See above.
