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Next Romulan War Book

Sibo191

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
Can we see The Obama facility destroyed, Pretty Please, with a cherry on top???

And for the love of God, please let Mayweather's Sissy Emo phase pass, or kill him, or run him out of the fleet. Seriously How many ships, that have him piloting have to be destroyed before Starfleet boots his whiny ass?
 
It's no worse than Picard being related to a Thomas Vanderbilt, of Vanderbilt moneyed-dynasty fame.

Naval/Space wars get ships destroyed very quickly. See the Pacific War for details, the last great naval war in our time.

Or the case of Violet Jessop, who was on all three Olympic-class liners and had two of them sunk from under her.
 
Can we see The Obama facility destroyed, Pretty Please, with a cherry on top???

I would much rather see it receive minor damage and then get rebuilt, with the realization that its orbit was shifting too far to the center and it needs to veer harder to the left.

It's no worse than Picard being related to a Thomas Vanderbilt, of Vanderbilt moneyed-dynasty fame.

To be fair, there's no particular reason to think that Thomas Vanderbilt is from the Vanderbilt dynasty. He could easily just have the same last name.

ETA: Though it does bug me to no end that most members of the United Earth Cabinet have the title of "Minister," yet he's referred to as "Secretary." WTF? End Edit.

I think a better comparison for the Obama Facility would be McKinley Station. Really, why United Earth or the Federation would name a space station against such a blatant imperialist who had so much innocent blood on his hands is beyond me.

Surely if they'll name something after a monster like McKinley, it's quite benign to name something after someone as benevolent as Obama.
 
If you want benevolent then you should lobby for the station to be named after Jimmy Carter. Not just benevolent but downright impotent. Of course Obama's pretty impotent as well but he's a Spidey fan and that counts for a lot.
 
Naval/Space wars get ships destroyed very quickly. See the Pacific War for details, the last great naval war in our time.
Except in the Pacific War, America had over eight hundred warships and many thousands of support ships, majority built during the course of the war. Earth as shown in Enterprise seriously lacked ship building capasity, that combined with the implied brevity of the Romulan War mean that if Earth force lost more than a few dozen ships early on (which they couldn't replace quickly) they would be out of the fight, i.e. they would lose.
 
If you want benevolent then you should lobby for the station to be named after Jimmy Carter. Not just benevolent but downright impotent. Of course Obama's pretty impotent as well but he's a Spidey fan and that counts for a lot.

There is no shame in not being powerful; there is a great deal of shame in being a murderer and conquerer. Give me a moral but impotent man over an imperialist any day of the week.
 
Surely if they'll name something after a monster like McKinley, it's quite benign to name something after someone as benevolent as Obama.

What could that poor mountain possibly have done to deserve such harsh words? ;)

I take it you were joking, but I always thought that McKinley Station was named after Mount McKinley, unless that was named after some American politician years ago.
 
I'm pretty sure that the mountain was named as the President of the US named McKinley though the station was probably named after the mountain.
 
Surely if they'll name something after a monster like McKinley, it's quite benign to name something after someone as benevolent as Obama.

What could that poor mountain possibly have done to deserve such harsh words? ;)

I take it you were joking, but I always thought that McKinley Station was named after Mount McKinley, unless that was named after some American politician years ago.

Mount McKinley, called "Denali" by the Koyukon Athabaskan people who actually inhabit the region and by the Alaska Board of Geographic Names, was named so by gold prospector in support of then-candidate William McKinley of Ohio, who served as President of the United States from 1897 to 1901. During his time in office, President McKinley got America embroiled in the Spanish-American War, taking Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines from Spain. This began decades of occupation and oppression against the native peoples, particularly the Filipinos.
 
Naval/Space wars get ships destroyed very quickly. See the Pacific War for details, the last great naval war in our time.
Except in the Pacific War, America had over eight hundred warships and many thousands of support ships, majority built during the course of the war. Earth as shown in Enterprise seriously lacked ship building capasity, that combined with the implied brevity of the Romulan War mean that if Earth force lost more than a few dozen ships early on (which they couldn't replace quickly) they would be out of the fight, i.e. they would lose.

There is no implied brevity whatsoever; the Earth-Romulan War has been stated to last from 2156 - 2160.

By way of comparison, the US Navy after the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands in 1942 had only one operational carrier left: USS Enterprise. Yorktown, Lexington, Hornet and Wasp had all been sunk. The massive fleet numbers came in 1944.

Earth is apparently pumping out Daedalus-class ships so the next book should be more even-sided.
 
In answer to the opening question:

This is how you'd treat the first US President to openly admit to being a Trek fan?
 
In answer to the opening question:

This is how you'd treat the first US President to openly admit to being a Trek fan?

I think President Clinton once said he was a Trek fan, but I can't recall my source for that.
 
President McKinley got America embroiled in the Spanish-American War
President McKinley was actual very opposed to the war, the pro-war congressional Democrats and the nations newspaper media pushed the country into war. McKinley got America embroiled through not being able to halt his political opposition.

taking Cuba, Guam, and the Philippines from Spain.
Under the terms of the 1899 peace treaty, America paid Spain twenty million dollar to renounce their claims, not exactly "taking."

Cuba was granted independence in 1902, Philippines was granted independence in 1946. Puerto Rico could likely obtain independence simply by formally requesting it. Guam's eventual future is unclear.

This began decades of occupation and oppression against the native peoples, particularly the Filipinos.
The native peoples fared far better with the Americans, than under the Spanish colonial government. True oppression of the Filipinos occurred with the occupation of the islands by the Empire of Japan. America establish local government, police and schools -- something the Spanish (and Japanese) apparently forgot to do.

Americans started the Philippines down the road to political independence only 35 years after assuming control of the islands, Spain held them for three centuries without making a single move in that direction.

Surely if they'll name something after a monster like McKinley
The aftermath of the Spanish-American war did add over 162,000 square miles of territory to America. Given the Federation's seeming compulsion need to endlessly expand, they might have honored the station with his name for that reason alone.

There is no implied brevity whatsoever
Given that the Romulan war is usual figured to be a "big" war, that Earth started with a very small number of ship and would have required a reasonable time period to build up it's infrastructure and fleet ... yes, three or four years would be a brief war.

By way of comparison, the US Navy after the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands in 1942 had only one operational carrier left: USS Enterprise. Yorktown, Lexington, Hornet and Wasp had all been sunk. The massive fleet numbers came in 1944.
The fast attack fleet aircraft carriers began to make their presents know in 1943, not 1944.

Prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, the US Navy had (total) 790 ships of which 225 were warships, plus all the little stuff. By the end of the second world war, it was 6,789 ships, 833 warships. What we saw on the show doesn't suggest anything like that kind of ship building ability. America had shipyards just sitting around waiting in 1941. The country started the war with hundreds of warships, United Earth started with what ... a few dozen?

:borg:
 
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Obama was the first Trekkie president? Hmm, did not know that.

Earth is apparently pumping out Daedalus-class ships so the next book should be more even-sided.

Whoever writes the rest of the Romulan War novels (however many there will eventually be) should look to this as an inspiration for how to depict Earth's defense fleet. :techman:
 
The size of the non-NX fleet has never been definitively stated in print.

Plus it was supposed to be a Coalition war, so adding in Vulcan, Andoria and Tellar would make things more reasonable.

Though since "neither side saw each other" we have already crossed the Weirdness Rubicon anyway.
 
taking Cuba, Guam, and the Philippines from Spain.
Under the terms of the 1899 peace treaty, America paid Spain twenty million dollar to renounce their claims, not exactly "taking."

The U.S. military had to occupy those countries and it claimed them as its territory. It took them.

Cuba was granted independence in 1902,

Under a puppet government that was independent in name only.

Philippines was granted independence in 1946.... The native peoples fared far better with the Americans, than under the Spanish colonial government.

Fascinating the way you're overlooking the war the United States fought to keep the Philippines under its heel.

The Philippines declared independence in 1898.

The United States only granted them independence after occupying them for decades and waging war against, in violation of the native independence movement that had its own elected government and constitution. American atrocities during the war included the deaths of 1.4 million Filipinos out of a population of only 9 million; the use of internment camps for civilians, supposedly to protect them from the fighting, that resulted in many dying from dysentery; the use of scorched earth tactics that resulted in the destruction of entire villages; the indiscriminate murder of civilians in occupied towns who defied American curfews; the destruction of entire villages and massacres of all of their inhabitants in revenge for the murders of individual American officers.

It was, in other words, a brutal, brutal occupation undertaken against the will of the Filipino people.

ETA: Now, you can probably argue reasonably that the occupation became far less brutal as time went on. That, as political stability returned to the country, the occupying U.S. forces stopped engaging in atrocities, that U.S. officers and locals forged relationships and friendships, that the Filipino government established under U.S. rule was given a certain amount of respect by the U.S. That's all reasonable. And certainly the Filipinos had no wish to see the U.S. military gone when they were under threat from the Empire of Japan.

But that doesn't make the initial choice to seize the Philippines rather than honor their sovereignty any better, nor does it justify actions taken during the war. It would have been quite just for the United States to liberate the Philippines and then withdraw, leaving the Filipino people to develop their own government in whatever manner they saw fit. It was inexcusable that the United States instead decided to simply exchange its heel for Spain's. End Edit.

Puerto Rico could likely obtain independence simply by formally requesting it.

Sure, in the modern era. That's not the point; the point is: The U.S. had no business taking it in the first place.

True oppression of the Filipinos occurred with the occupation of the islands by the Empire of Japan.

The fact that other imperialists did bad things, too, doesn't make U.S. imperialism okay.

Americans started the Philippines down the road to political independence only 35 years after assuming control of the islands,

America should have instantly renounced its claim on the Philippines and respected Filipino sovereignty from the get-go. 35 years as a U.S. territory is 35 years too many.

And a casual purview of history would reveal that it was the Filipino nationalists participating in the U.S.-imposed insular government who started the U.S. down the road towards Filipino independence once McKinley and Roosevelt were gone. It was not the United States which started the Philippines down that road; it was the Philippines which started the U.S. down that road.
 
The size of the non-NX fleet has never been definitively stated in print.

Perhaps not, but that only makes things more interesting - future writers can make the size of the Earth fleet (not necessarily the Earth Starfleet) as big or small as they want.

And about that last bit: They can also suggest that Earth had its own separate, pure-military fleet, distinct from Starfleet. Since ENT-era Starfleet was, uniquely, non-military (whereas the Starfleet of TOS and later was military), who's to say that Earth didn't have another fleet of its own? :borg:
 
^ That was seemingly suggested that Earth didn't have another fleet by the Xindi thing. If Earth had had a military fleet, surely that would have been sent to find the Xindi?
 
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