I had a feeling it was something like that.
Next Picard novel: Second Self by Una McCormack, coming April 2022
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I loved The Undefeated and, uh, would greatly enjoy the opportunity to read another non-tie-in novel by Dr. McCormack. [I don't want to use the term 'original' -- it suggests that, say, The Last Best Hope wasn't original...] But this is still very welcome news; I'd prefer for Picard novels to be more frequent but well, beggars / choosers etc...
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I would like to publicly apologize to @Stevil2001. While I was not happy with the way he phrased his post, my response was out of proportion to the offense, as it were. It's a hot-button issue with me, going back many years to when writers would tell me that I was "wasting my time" writing tie-ins. Right now, I'm writing fewer tie-ins than I was then, and also making significantly less money. I don't think I was "wasting my time" feeding, clothing, and housing myself.
Still, Steve didn't deserve my ire, and I am extremely sorry for my tone. It was not warranted, not acceptable, and not nice.
Sorry, Steve.
Still, Steve didn't deserve my ire, and I am extremely sorry for my tone. It was not warranted, not acceptable, and not nice.
Sorry, Steve.
You might want to check out The Baba Yaga (which she co-wrote with Eric Brown) and Star of the Sea, both from the Weird Space series.
Thank you! I'll do so!
Hey all,
Before I start, please let me say that I want to say something, but I am honestly AFRAID to say this, so please forgive me in advance, and I hope I express this properly and with respect to EVERYONE on the forums, and to all the Trek writers on these forums:
@KRAD @Greg Cox @Christopher @James Swallow etc
Honestly, after what happened with Last Best Hope it it is my sincerest wish and I hope that the upcoming Trek novels, do not contain cursing whatsoever. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do at all, you are all professionals, and I proud to support each and every one of the Trek writers out there. But, I honestly did not care for the language in that book. I just felt saddened that this actually happened in Trek at all. It was a strange experience, being excited to read a book and then feeling like this is beyond foreign to me. It’s been over 15 months and because of the growing fears and uncertainties of the pandemic, I truly wanted to escape from the realities of the day. Instead I felt like It was out of place, out of character for a Trek story, and it completely took me out of the story. I ended up immediately purchasing James Swallow’s follow up Picard book, and was thankful that was not the case. But, to be honest, this writer has been selected to keep writing Trek books. It was disappointing to see that major reviewers and vloggers and venues completely ignored this fact of language and I felt it was disheartening and very disingenuous not to mention it at all. I am very distrustful of reviewers now and the major outlets because of this. I am not a religious extremist or anything of that nature.
I certainly hope it does not continue in the future, and it was a one off sort of thing. I still don’t understand the reasoning behind the decision with publisher and the editor as well. Controversy? Being edgy for the sake of edginess, what was it? No reviewer or media outlet seemed to want to even ask this question, which in the end was puzzling to me. I wish I had a answer, then maybe I could understand the reasons behind the decision. Lastly, everyone has a right to express themselves in any way possible, but this was beyond excessive.
Thanks in advance for understanding, and again I don’t mean offend anyone with this post, and I hope I do not. Just expressing a doubt.
-Koric
Before I start, please let me say that I want to say something, but I am honestly AFRAID to say this, so please forgive me in advance, and I hope I express this properly and with respect to EVERYONE on the forums, and to all the Trek writers on these forums:
@KRAD @Greg Cox @Christopher @James Swallow etc
Honestly, after what happened with Last Best Hope it it is my sincerest wish and I hope that the upcoming Trek novels, do not contain cursing whatsoever. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do at all, you are all professionals, and I proud to support each and every one of the Trek writers out there. But, I honestly did not care for the language in that book. I just felt saddened that this actually happened in Trek at all. It was a strange experience, being excited to read a book and then feeling like this is beyond foreign to me. It’s been over 15 months and because of the growing fears and uncertainties of the pandemic, I truly wanted to escape from the realities of the day. Instead I felt like It was out of place, out of character for a Trek story, and it completely took me out of the story. I ended up immediately purchasing James Swallow’s follow up Picard book, and was thankful that was not the case. But, to be honest, this writer has been selected to keep writing Trek books. It was disappointing to see that major reviewers and vloggers and venues completely ignored this fact of language and I felt it was disheartening and very disingenuous not to mention it at all. I am very distrustful of reviewers now and the major outlets because of this. I am not a religious extremist or anything of that nature.
I certainly hope it does not continue in the future, and it was a one off sort of thing. I still don’t understand the reasoning behind the decision with publisher and the editor as well. Controversy? Being edgy for the sake of edginess, what was it? No reviewer or media outlet seemed to want to even ask this question, which in the end was puzzling to me. I wish I had a answer, then maybe I could understand the reasons behind the decision. Lastly, everyone has a right to express themselves in any way possible, but this was beyond excessive.
Thanks in advance for understanding, and again I don’t mean offend anyone with this post, and I hope I do not. Just expressing a doubt.
-Koric
Hi Keith, thanks for apologizing. I meant "should" in the sense of "would like to see" but I can see how that can set someone off, especially given what happened to you, and I will be more mindful of my word choices in the future. I think any claims of mine that someone "should" be writing something else assumes they can make money from it sufficient to meet their needs!I would like to publicly apologize to @Stevil2001. While I was not happy with the way he phrased his post, my response was out of proportion to the offense, as it were. It's a hot-button issue with me, going back many years to when writers would tell me that I was "wasting my time" writing tie-ins. Right now, I'm writing fewer tie-ins than I was then, and also making significantly less money. I don't think I was "wasting my time" feeding, clothing, and housing myself.
Still, Steve didn't deserve my ire, and I am extremely sorry for my tone. It was not warranted, not acceptable, and not nice.
Sorry, Steve.
Seriously? I don't understand this kind of reaction. They're just words. People use them. I personally don't curse strongly in public, but my characters often do, because that's just how some people talk. It's not evil or destructive, it's just expressive. Whether we find the words offensive or not is a function of how we're raised. A word that can be shocking to one person or one generation is totally casual and harmless to another. (I was once startled by a conversation I overheard on a bus. A word I was raised to consider the worst obscenity imaginable was tossed around so casually and meaninglessly that it was elided to "M'fuh" and used essentially as a pronoun. Yet when the speaker wanted to express real emotion, he said "What the hell?" -- which to me was a far milder expletive. I realized then how arbitrary our perceptions of words can be.)
And usage changes over time. Language changes, attitudes change. When the original Star Trek was made half a century ago, it was all but forbidden to use "hell" or "damn" as an expletive on television, just as it was all but forbidden to show a woman's navel, or just as I Love Lucy a decade or so earlier was forbidden to use the word "pregnant" as if there were something obscene about the process by which every single human being comes into existence. Today, those restrictions have faded as attitudes have changed. Society changes, and fiction changes with it. Television and prose are freer to express how human beings actually talk, rather than having to lie about it and pretend that cuss words (or bellybuttons or pregnancy) don't exist. That's an improvement.
Fry: Try waking him up by shocking him!
Bender: Your social security check is late! Things cost more than they used to! Young people use curse words!
The swearing in Trek debate thanks to DSC is getting a bit old. I think its funny that when one refers back to the many times there have been bad words (the bad ones) there are always reasons why those were okay (other than the fact that it was before and before is good, but this is now, and now is bad). Because now they've gone too far. Because the specific word is way "worse". I certainly hope Star Trek writers, both tv/film and novels, wouldn't even think of curbing the style of their writing because a tiny, tiny minority of fans are offended by what is honestly the bare minimum usage of R rated language in Trek. Pretty much all usage has been to punctuate and emphasize either the dramatic content of the dialogue, or to add specific personality to the character through their use of cursing. Some of the reaction I see makes it seem like Picards and Burnhams are opening the show with, "Captain's Log...Shit has been hitting the fucking proverbial wall since arriving at the Neutral Zone."
Bender: Your social security check is late! Things cost more than they used to! Young people use curse words!
The swearing in Trek debate thanks to DSC is getting a bit old. I think its funny that when one refers back to the many times there have been bad words (the bad ones) there are always reasons why those were okay (other than the fact that it was before and before is good, but this is now, and now is bad). Because now they've gone too far. Because the specific word is way "worse". I certainly hope Star Trek writers, both tv/film and novels, wouldn't even think of curbing the style of their writing because a tiny, tiny minority of fans are offended by what is honestly the bare minimum usage of R rated language in Trek. Pretty much all usage has been to punctuate and emphasize either the dramatic content of the dialogue, or to add specific personality to the character through their use of cursing. Some of the reaction I see makes it seem like Picards and Burnhams are opening the show with, "Captain's Log...Shit has been hitting the fucking proverbial wall since arriving at the Neutral Zone."
Honestly, the idea that people don't swear in STAR TREK's glorious future is ridiculous. No matter how "evolved" or "utopian" society may get, people are still going to swear when they stub their toes and spill their coffee.
Strong language is not a social evil like poverty or war or prejudice that we need to evolve beyond. It's just a colorful means of expression.
And let's be honest, the ONLY reason we didn't hear certain words on STAR TREK before was because of Standards & Practices. Off-stage, you just KNOW Scotty was cursing a blue streak whenever the impulse engines were acting up.
I actually love that the characters on PICARD and DISCOVERY get to talk like real people, not Sunday School teachers.
That being said, I tend to follow the source material's lead when it comes to the language in my books. I'm not going to start throwing F-words into my TOS books because that would go against capturing the feel of the 1960s TV show. But if I ever I write for the new shows, I'm absolutely going to take advantage of today's new standards, if only to capture the feel of those specific shows.
Confession: I still being mildly thrilled to discover that I could say "fuck" in a TERMINATOR novel -- and may have abused the privilege!
Strong language is not a social evil like poverty or war or prejudice that we need to evolve beyond. It's just a colorful means of expression.
And let's be honest, the ONLY reason we didn't hear certain words on STAR TREK before was because of Standards & Practices. Off-stage, you just KNOW Scotty was cursing a blue streak whenever the impulse engines were acting up.
I actually love that the characters on PICARD and DISCOVERY get to talk like real people, not Sunday School teachers.
That being said, I tend to follow the source material's lead when it comes to the language in my books. I'm not going to start throwing F-words into my TOS books because that would go against capturing the feel of the 1960s TV show. But if I ever I write for the new shows, I'm absolutely going to take advantage of today's new standards, if only to capture the feel of those specific shows.
Confession: I still being mildly thrilled to discover that I could say "fuck" in a TERMINATOR novel -- and may have abused the privilege!
I wonder if there were people in 1979 who were outraged that the characters in Star Trek: The Motion Picture were suddenly saying things like "How in the name of hell" and "a damned computer center" rather than "How in the Devil" and "a blasted computer center" like they would have in TOS. I mean, it was a G-rated movie! Won't someone think of the children?
Although I've overheard children playing in the local park, and the truth is, they cuss like sailors. It's only their parents who are sensitive to such things.
Although I've overheard children playing in the local park, and the truth is, they cuss like sailors. It's only their parents who are sensitive to such things.
@Christopher I agree with what you had to say. Actually you had the same response to me back in Feb 2020. With all due respect I agree with you as far as time changing and being progressive. But please understand as far as the prose of the story goes, it honestly is extreme and excessive. For example the president of the federation saying holy f-ing $hit. Why? Or why the hell do I care for the sake of the story a waiter telling Maddox F-you?
I have read your works and I can't imagine you throwing around expletives so casually. Honestly, I truly enjoyed the story and if I could, I would take out the 17 sh words and 19 F s in it.
Look language and prose are powerful tools of expression. I am NOT telling ANYONE how to write at all. I didnt care for it, and honestly it has bothered me immensely why anyone thought this was PROGRESSIVE in the first place. Honestly it seemed out of place, out of context and REGRESSIVE to be honest.
Culturally to me everything is colored by the 1985 BATMAN the Dark Knight Returns that Frank Miller did. But, it was marketed as an mature audience adult series. I confessed I read it at the age of 12, and my mother purchased for me. I thought it was deluxe comic, but it was very graphic and explicit. Right or wrong I didnt know what I was getting into, and my mom didnt too. But DC and Miller intended that from the beginning. It was Miller's intention to ADULT BATMAN from 1966 show to a then relevant 1985 complete with violence, sex, etc.
This whole story and narrative with Picard just didn't make sense at all. Why would I as a reader care if a waiter said F-you to Maddox why in the world does that serve the story?
Please understand that I didnt understand and still dont, this DEFENSIVENESS for bringing this matter up. Bloggers never mentioned it. Hell even reviewers didnt mention it. The reviewer on TOR wanted to save the language for a separate blog post, and never said anything. Why? I guess I could lay to rest if I understood the reasoning behind it. Do you or the other Trek writers feel the need to cut lose with your prose in Trek? More power to you then. But other than James Swallows dedication in his Picard book there was no such need to swear. Look to be clear I am NOT advocating censorship, nor am I the MORAL MAJORITY. I just wanted to understand why this happened, why you have not adopted the need for such strong language in your Trek novels, and is this now a permanent fixture in Trek? Was this meant to be like The Dark Knight Returns for Trek, if so fine I get it. But, then the show did not follow suit.
Actually as far as 1960s TV goes I think the covering of Jeannie's navel in I dream of Jeannie was incredibly stupid. But, give me a beautiful tummy and navel any day, and I am happy
Please know my intent is not to anger or offend anyone, but I am just asking questions that have bothered me for awhile now.
-Koric
I have read your works and I can't imagine you throwing around expletives so casually. Honestly, I truly enjoyed the story and if I could, I would take out the 17 sh words and 19 F s in it.
Look language and prose are powerful tools of expression. I am NOT telling ANYONE how to write at all. I didnt care for it, and honestly it has bothered me immensely why anyone thought this was PROGRESSIVE in the first place. Honestly it seemed out of place, out of context and REGRESSIVE to be honest.
Culturally to me everything is colored by the 1985 BATMAN the Dark Knight Returns that Frank Miller did. But, it was marketed as an mature audience adult series. I confessed I read it at the age of 12, and my mother purchased for me. I thought it was deluxe comic, but it was very graphic and explicit. Right or wrong I didnt know what I was getting into, and my mom didnt too. But DC and Miller intended that from the beginning. It was Miller's intention to ADULT BATMAN from 1966 show to a then relevant 1985 complete with violence, sex, etc.
This whole story and narrative with Picard just didn't make sense at all. Why would I as a reader care if a waiter said F-you to Maddox why in the world does that serve the story?
Please understand that I didnt understand and still dont, this DEFENSIVENESS for bringing this matter up. Bloggers never mentioned it. Hell even reviewers didnt mention it. The reviewer on TOR wanted to save the language for a separate blog post, and never said anything. Why? I guess I could lay to rest if I understood the reasoning behind it. Do you or the other Trek writers feel the need to cut lose with your prose in Trek? More power to you then. But other than James Swallows dedication in his Picard book there was no such need to swear. Look to be clear I am NOT advocating censorship, nor am I the MORAL MAJORITY. I just wanted to understand why this happened, why you have not adopted the need for such strong language in your Trek novels, and is this now a permanent fixture in Trek? Was this meant to be like The Dark Knight Returns for Trek, if so fine I get it. But, then the show did not follow suit.
Actually as far as 1960s TV goes I think the covering of Jeannie's navel in I dream of Jeannie was incredibly stupid. But, give me a beautiful tummy and navel any day, and I am happy
Please know my intent is not to anger or offend anyone, but I am just asking questions that have bothered me for awhile now.
-Koric
I can talk folks through my creative decisions here if anyone's interested?
Oh what bothered me story wise to this day in the Dark Knight Returns was Batman using and M-60 holding a child to take out two mutant punks. It seemed out of character since Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered by a GUN. Batman would never use a gun anyway.
To be honest, what happened in the Picard novel seemed so passe and a joke with the prose, after the Dark Knight Returns honestly.
As for what @Greg Cox said. If it the language and prose fits and calls for it in the story. Hey, I am all for it. The same goes for you as well @Christopher I salute you and I support you wholeheartedly. As long as it does NOT pull me out of the story, I am game.
As for Star Trek TMP the examples you mentioned are great and fit the fact that the characters were temperamental, under stress and older. It made complete sense. But having the PRESIDENT of the Federation say holy F-ing sh it was like is the Federation president Redd? Only in ST 6 right?
It just seemed out out of place and character honestly.
-Koric
To be honest, what happened in the Picard novel seemed so passe and a joke with the prose, after the Dark Knight Returns honestly.
As for what @Greg Cox said. If it the language and prose fits and calls for it in the story. Hey, I am all for it. The same goes for you as well @Christopher I salute you and I support you wholeheartedly. As long as it does NOT pull me out of the story, I am game.
As for Star Trek TMP the examples you mentioned are great and fit the fact that the characters were temperamental, under stress and older. It made complete sense. But having the PRESIDENT of the Federation say holy F-ing sh it was like is the Federation president Redd? Only in ST 6 right?
It just seemed out out of place and character honestly.
-Koric
Hello Mrs @Una McCormack I appreciate you coming on here. If you read some of the last three or four posts I made. Yes, I would like to ask you truly and I am not meaning to offend you in any way, what were some of the reasons for the language and prose in Last, Best, Hope. Since it seemed some of of the reviewers and bloggers seemed to lack the fortitude to ask you about your choices for the novel, and why is it only in this instance of Trek and not any of your other Trek novels before or since?
To be honest and fair, I reviewed your novel and gave it 5 stars, but to be honest the language and prose pulled me out of the story completely. But, I enjoyed the overall story you were trying to tell, regardless of the excessiveness of the language. I am not one for advocating censorship at all. I would like to enjoy future Trek stories of yours, and I have purchased your past DS9 novels and have enjoyed those as well. As I stated in my review, I didn't agree with the language, but I felt it was necessary to say something WITHOUT causing harm to your sales, as I wanted you to succeed.
Thanks in advance,
-Koric
To be honest and fair, I reviewed your novel and gave it 5 stars, but to be honest the language and prose pulled me out of the story completely. But, I enjoyed the overall story you were trying to tell, regardless of the excessiveness of the language. I am not one for advocating censorship at all. I would like to enjoy future Trek stories of yours, and I have purchased your past DS9 novels and have enjoyed those as well. As I stated in my review, I didn't agree with the language, but I felt it was necessary to say something WITHOUT causing harm to your sales, as I wanted you to succeed.
Thanks in advance,
-Koric
Those of us who grew up in the Watergate era and remember all those [EXPLETIVE DELETED]s in the White House transcripts have no trouble accepting that Presidents can swear a lot.
Seriously, I don't think people are being "defensive" here as much as some of us may be weary of having to hash this out one more time. And as for why more reviewers didn't mention the language in that one novel, maybe they simply didn't think it was a big deal, or maybe, honestly, it didn't even register on them.
True story: Some years ago, I recommended a book to someone because it struck me as exactly what they said they were looking for: a big, ambitious science-fiction saga full of big, chewy SF concepts, exotic alien lifeforms, meticulous world-building, engaging characters, etc. Imagine my surprise when, a few weeks later, this someone informed me that he'd had to stop reading the book because he'd encountered the F-word.
I confess: it had never even occurred to me that this might be an issue. Indeed, I hadn't even noticed or remembered that there had been profanity in book. I'd been too busy enjoying all the weird alien civilizations and epic space battles. And I remain baffled by the idea that a few "fucks" somehow ruined a 700-page novel.
Point being, it may well be that, like me, some reviewers didn't really notice the profanity and therefore didn't bother to mention it. I sincerely doubt it was a "lack of fortitude."
Seriously, I don't think people are being "defensive" here as much as some of us may be weary of having to hash this out one more time. And as for why more reviewers didn't mention the language in that one novel, maybe they simply didn't think it was a big deal, or maybe, honestly, it didn't even register on them.
True story: Some years ago, I recommended a book to someone because it struck me as exactly what they said they were looking for: a big, ambitious science-fiction saga full of big, chewy SF concepts, exotic alien lifeforms, meticulous world-building, engaging characters, etc. Imagine my surprise when, a few weeks later, this someone informed me that he'd had to stop reading the book because he'd encountered the F-word.
I confess: it had never even occurred to me that this might be an issue. Indeed, I hadn't even noticed or remembered that there had been profanity in book. I'd been too busy enjoying all the weird alien civilizations and epic space battles. And I remain baffled by the idea that a few "fucks" somehow ruined a 700-page novel.
Point being, it may well be that, like me, some reviewers didn't really notice the profanity and therefore didn't bother to mention it. I sincerely doubt it was a "lack of fortitude."
Whyever not? As Greg says, that's the way people talk in real life. Presidents have to deal with a lot of stressful and upsetting situations, and I'm sure that just about every president in history has privately (and sometimes publicly) reacted to stress and strong emotion the way every other human being does -- by cursing. It's been shown that cursing is actually psychologically beneficial in stressful times. It's healthy to swear. So why wouldn't a president cuss? Explain that to me. Who could possibly be more entitled to swear than someone dealing with that kind of responsibility?
Uhh, you just cursed. You used a profanity for emphasis. Which is what it's good for. It's hypocritical to say it's okay for you to use the words you're comfortable with but wrong for other people to use the words they're comfortable with. Remember my bus story? It's all relative. People's ideas of which words are more offensive than others are arbitrary and culturally subjective. Something isn't a moral outrage just because it's different from what you're used to.
As I said, I don't, but my characters do when it's in character for them. I believe in writing honestly and realistically, and it's dishonest to pretend that people don't use profanity, or that different people don't have different standards.
If you're talking about my Trek works, I don't have characters use graphic profanity in them because that hasn't (until recently) been part of Trek's standards. Same for my Marvel novels back in the mid-2000s. But my original fiction is usually rather more R-rated, and the characters there curse a lot more heavily.
It's all about texture and characterization. For instance, in my Hub universe, David LaMacchia doesn't curse much because he's a wholesome innocent, but Nashira Wing curses extensively in English and Cantonese because she's a jaded, bitter, tough person who's had a rough life. It would rob me of a valuable tool for characterization if I couldn't have her use the kind of language she'd realistically use.
Not at all. Profanity isn't some gross moral crime. It doesn't hurt anyone. It doesn't make someone bad. Some of the nicest people I know curse all the time. Outrage over profanity is just a hollow excuse for some people to pretend they're better than other people.
Defensiveness implies that we think we're doing something wrong. The only person who thinks that is you. I just find it bewildering that you think this is such a big deal.
My assumption regarding profanity in Picard novels is that there is an attempt to be consistent with the parent show's usage of swear words. When someone memorably says "Sheer fucking hubris" in an episode, then there is an expectation that tie-in books can follow suit and use curses when the author feels it is appropriate.
@Koric: Thank you for the 5 star review, which I hugely appreciate. I'm sorry that the swearing threw you out of the story. I didn't see the same hesitation over discussing the swearing in the reviews I read. Not every reviewer mentioned it; many did; some didn't like it; some didn't mind. Each to their own taste.
When I write a TV tie-in novel, one of my main aims is to be congruent with the tone of the show. People don't swear in TNG or DS9, etc., but they do swear in Picard, so that was going to be part of the novel. There's no swearing, I think, in The Way to the Stars, which is consciously written as a YA; there is swearing in Wonderlands.
I see you've already done a count of the number of instances of "fuck" and "shit" (there's also a smaller number of "piss"); in general you'll find that the swearing is associated with specific characters: Clancy (who swears on screen; we therefore know that swearing is within her lexicon), but also particularly Maddox (whom I hope is clearly not the hero of the book), Jurati under his influence, and also Raffi. I think they account for the bulk of the swearing. Geordi gets a couple of mild swears too, I think: YMMV here.
The scene with Maddox, Jurati, and the waiter is actually one of my favourites in the book. The news about the attack on Mars has just arrived, everyone is in shock, and Maddox and Jurati are trying to determine whether they're complicit. I think the swearing in this scene is situationally justified and not gratuitous. Again, everyone's mileage varies.
Fewer than 50 instances of swearing in a 100k novel seems to me not particularly excessive, but then I am quite the pottiest of potty-mouths.
(PS My title is 'Dr' - I'm not 'Mrs' - but 'Una' is absolutely fine.)
When I write a TV tie-in novel, one of my main aims is to be congruent with the tone of the show. People don't swear in TNG or DS9, etc., but they do swear in Picard, so that was going to be part of the novel. There's no swearing, I think, in The Way to the Stars, which is consciously written as a YA; there is swearing in Wonderlands.
I see you've already done a count of the number of instances of "fuck" and "shit" (there's also a smaller number of "piss"); in general you'll find that the swearing is associated with specific characters: Clancy (who swears on screen; we therefore know that swearing is within her lexicon), but also particularly Maddox (whom I hope is clearly not the hero of the book), Jurati under his influence, and also Raffi. I think they account for the bulk of the swearing. Geordi gets a couple of mild swears too, I think: YMMV here.
The scene with Maddox, Jurati, and the waiter is actually one of my favourites in the book. The news about the attack on Mars has just arrived, everyone is in shock, and Maddox and Jurati are trying to determine whether they're complicit. I think the swearing in this scene is situationally justified and not gratuitous. Again, everyone's mileage varies.
Fewer than 50 instances of swearing in a 100k novel seems to me not particularly excessive, but then I am quite the pottiest of potty-mouths.
(PS My title is 'Dr' - I'm not 'Mrs' - but 'Una' is absolutely fine.)
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@Greg Cox and @Christopher I want you to know that I am a huge fan of both your works and I am not trying to argue with either one of you. I did not realize this had been brought up before or since outside of my saying it.
@Greg Cox I totally agree. If all you can remember or if anything was memorable from a 700 page novel is the F-word and stop, then they must have not wanted to read the novel in the first place. Honestly, that would not happen to me in the first place. That is a shame to miss on a good book.
I just got reminded of your version of Khan in To Reign in hell. Excellent...regal, commanding and shrewd. Not in the slightest over the top. As I told you before it made me want to re read Vonda's Wrath of Khan novelization to compare. It was seemless. Flawless. Khan used terror as a tool to wield for being command.
@Christopher I'm sorry if I upset you for bringing all this up. I am not trying to be a hypocrite when using hell over the F word. I understand the context of what you both are trying to convey, and I agree. I guess it had bothered me for a long while how this all happened in this book.
As you mentioned @Christopher you use certain words in certain characters and certain situations. I completely understand. As you said you have your characters, and the situations you create and craft. In the case of the Picard book it just seem to a little awkward and unnecessary at times. I did not want to get knocked out of the story, but it was a struggle at times to put certain ideas or concepts or sayings into context.
As I said I am not trying to be hypocritical to anyone, or offensive to anyone, and I am not some moral majority type person. Again, for me, I just had questions about the who what and why certain choices were made, and decided to ask all of you, as different long time Trek writers your opinions, your views, and I appreciate them, and receive them.
I apologize to each and every one of you, if I had angered, offended or exasperated or frustrated anyone in the process. I am just a fan and nothing more.
Thank you for your time and responses, and I hope none of you think any less of me, for asking these questions or responding the way that i have.
As a Trek fan, the last thing i would want to do is either anger, alienate or disappoint any of the Trek writers on here. I think it's an incredible privilege to be able to communicate with each and every one of you and in turn get your viewpoints, of which I truly respect.
-Koric
@Greg Cox I totally agree. If all you can remember or if anything was memorable from a 700 page novel is the F-word and stop, then they must have not wanted to read the novel in the first place. Honestly, that would not happen to me in the first place. That is a shame to miss on a good book.
I just got reminded of your version of Khan in To Reign in hell. Excellent...regal, commanding and shrewd. Not in the slightest over the top. As I told you before it made me want to re read Vonda's Wrath of Khan novelization to compare. It was seemless. Flawless. Khan used terror as a tool to wield for being command.
@Christopher I'm sorry if I upset you for bringing all this up. I am not trying to be a hypocrite when using hell over the F word. I understand the context of what you both are trying to convey, and I agree. I guess it had bothered me for a long while how this all happened in this book.
As you mentioned @Christopher you use certain words in certain characters and certain situations. I completely understand. As you said you have your characters, and the situations you create and craft. In the case of the Picard book it just seem to a little awkward and unnecessary at times. I did not want to get knocked out of the story, but it was a struggle at times to put certain ideas or concepts or sayings into context.
As I said I am not trying to be hypocritical to anyone, or offensive to anyone, and I am not some moral majority type person. Again, for me, I just had questions about the who what and why certain choices were made, and decided to ask all of you, as different long time Trek writers your opinions, your views, and I appreciate them, and receive them.
I apologize to each and every one of you, if I had angered, offended or exasperated or frustrated anyone in the process. I am just a fan and nothing more.
Thank you for your time and responses, and I hope none of you think any less of me, for asking these questions or responding the way that i have.
As a Trek fan, the last thing i would want to do is either anger, alienate or disappoint any of the Trek writers on here. I think it's an incredible privilege to be able to communicate with each and every one of you and in turn get your viewpoints, of which I truly respect.
-Koric
