He got the same effect that others did when being teleported away. I hope that it means he just got sent somewhere else. If he was meant to die, I’d imagine they would show that and make it clear.
News Next Arrowverse Crossover to Include Batwoman
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Yes, it's easy enough to deduce that, but it's still a structural flaw in the storytelling to unceremoniously remove a character like that and not have it acknowledged or followed up on in any way. The fact that we can figure it out does not absolve the storytellers of their responsibility to resolve the threads they introduce.
I wonder if he will show up again like in next season's crossover episode or maybe he will be used in a "Flash" episode this season. Speaking of characters that got short changed is I was expecting Batwoman to play a bigger role in the final battle and episode. I hope next season they go back to 4 episodes and include all the shows this time. I will say I loved seeing Gary in the episode. I don't think anyone has mentioned him and to me he might have been the most fun unexpected moment which is both a reflection on both his character and how much I love "Guardians" as a show and think it's the best one of them all.
Jason
Jason
I'm getting it from the fact that, for the initial 32+ years after Superman II's release, I never once heard anyone opine that Supes had killed Zod in that film. The first time I ever encountered the claim was only after Man of Steel's debut, in the context of people seeking to defend Snyderman by deflecting the criticism of his killing of Zod onto Reeve's version -- a claim that has since been repeated by said defenders ad nauseam.
And as I've said, it was always presented as a supposedly-clever "Gotcha!" in those discussions -- which makes no sense, really, if everybody but me had always interpreted the Fortress scene that way. For that matter, it begs the question of why the Zod bit in MoS was controversial at all, if everybody already perceived the most popular and beloved version of Superman as a casual murderer.
But if you and others say that you always understood the Superman II scene that way, I'll accept that as your honest interpretation. I still think it's a baffling and utterly tone-deaf misreading, but it's all yours, big guy.
^^^
Thank you.
They were never "treated" as being unequal. They were treated as being different people. Kryptonians aren't clones. And their respective powers on Earth shouldn't be treated as such -- never mind their life experiences, ambitions, philosophies, and general outlook on life.
A few thoughts:
I enjoy these crossovers. The stories are kinda rushed and all, but I dig the chemistry of the 3 shows' main characters.
As for Superman 2, I never gave Zod's fate a second thought. I saw it first run and have seen it several times since, and not until recently have I ever heard Superman called a murderer. Zod and co. were cold blooded killers already sentenced to eternity in the Phantom Zone, so whatever their fate after that, they kinda begged for it. Boo hoo.
I like the comic book shows and movies, but when they're over I let it go and get back to real life. Because there's stuff to do. And stuff.
I enjoy these crossovers. The stories are kinda rushed and all, but I dig the chemistry of the 3 shows' main characters.
As for Superman 2, I never gave Zod's fate a second thought. I saw it first run and have seen it several times since, and not until recently have I ever heard Superman called a murderer. Zod and co. were cold blooded killers already sentenced to eternity in the Phantom Zone, so whatever their fate after that, they kinda begged for it. Boo hoo.
I like the comic book shows and movies, but when they're over I let it go and get back to real life. Because there's stuff to do. And stuff.
I just rewatched the trilogy, and I noticed a rather disquieting detail buried in the infodump about AMAZO in Part 1. They said that Ivo Labs was commissioned by ARGUS to build it to track down metahumans. In Legends of Tomorrow, Zari comes from a dystopian future where metas have been outlawed and ARGUS hunts them down and imprisons/experiments on them. It sounds like the first steps toward that dystopia have already been taken, although at least the destruction of AMAZO is a setback.
In Part 3, when Deegan was rewriting reality chaotically toward the climax, there was a shot where the STAR Labs building went through some quick changes. There was the Deegan-created version with the Superman logo, a brief glimpse of the SS version from Earth-X, and one with a logo I didn't recognize. I was going to ask if anyone here recognized it, but I decided to look around on the Arrowverse Wiki a bit and I stumbled across the answer -- it was the starburst from the Elseworlds logo. So it was an in-joke, but not the kind I expected.
In Part 3, when Deegan was rewriting reality chaotically toward the climax, there was a shot where the STAR Labs building went through some quick changes. There was the Deegan-created version with the Superman logo, a brief glimpse of the SS version from Earth-X, and one with a logo I didn't recognize. I was going to ask if anyone here recognized it, but I decided to look around on the Arrowverse Wiki a bit and I stumbled across the answer -- it was the starburst from the Elseworlds logo. So it was an in-joke, but not the kind I expected.
At the risk of "poking the hornet's nest", as it were, Clark has said that Kara is physically stronger than he is. However, that fact does not make him somehow "lesser" regardless of the twisted opinions of some people here.
I thought it was the Legion emblem.
It does raise the point of why even bother bringing up physical strength to compare them. Shouldn't it basically be. "Who cares who is stronger?" Not to mention the whole idea that someone is "stronger" is such a dubious and unproven measure between individuals. Just because someone beats someone in one fight doesn't mean they will win a rematch because the conditions will never be the same.
Jason
^ Aside from Clark hallucinating, a physical fight between him and Kara will always be the same because they have the same powers and abilities.
But what does power and abilities mean exactly when you think about it. I can walk and talk and punch stuff just like Mike Tyson so in away we have the same abilities but he would clearly kick my ass in a fight unless I did something clever that countered it. When it comes to fighting you also have to consider skill when things are more evenly matched. If your the underdog you then have to find a trick to get it done.
Jason
No, that's a circle containing an L and a starburst. This was just a starburst with a "spike" sticking out to one side, exactly like the one in the middle of the Elseworlds logo.
Nobody in the show brought up physical strength; that's a misreading by some people in this thread. What Clark said to Kara was, "You are so much stronger than I am. I see it every time we're together." Obviously they haven't fought supervillains every time they've been together; up until 4 years ago, Kara rarely used her superpowers, but she and Clark still got to know each other pretty well. So clearly he was not talking about her physical strength, but about her inner strength, her strength of character.
That's how I read it also. I think the physcial strength was something that was only brought up after the Superman vs Supergirl fight last year. I know in some fans mind though this is liberal code for "Women are morally superior." Which is triggered by the overall political nature of the show. Some because it makes them feel insecure. Others because they don't want to be lectured to.
Jason
Again, the issue of physical strength was never brought up in the actual show, only in the misreadings of certain people on this BBS. In that episode, Superman did not say anything about who was stronger; he only said "You beat me." As I've pointed out multiple times in the Supergirl thread, you don't have to be physically stronger to win a fight. Supergirl was trained to fight by Alex, a woman who routinely outfights men who are bigger and stronger than she is. So it stands to reason that Supergirl didn't win by being stronger than Superman, she won by having better combat training.
I know. I was talking more about how we fans sometimes see physical strength. It's more than just who has the bigger muscles or better abilities. Even if you discount skill nothing truly equals out.
Jason
Several martial arts are designed to beat people stronger than you, you use their strength and weight against them. You basically just grab and redirect them in specific ways then gravity does the rest.
Hell, I learned that decades ago by reading Captain America comics!
Would it be too meta if there was an organization that patrols the multi-verse and used that logo?