News Next Arrowverse Crossover to Include Batwoman

[tomalak301]

I've always found that if I don't like something, I stop watching/reading/consuming it...
In the world of comic book superheroes - there is ALWAYS a version that I can find that fits my taste, especially if I am willing to wait until the next "reboot."
In extreme situations, I just erase the thing I don't like from my "head canon" and move on.
Life is much happier that way.

In fairness it is hard to stop watching something if it's part of a crossover that includes two shows that you do watch. I don't watch Supergirl, but I do watch Flash and Arrow, and Supergirl was just part of the crossover. I had to watch something I don't particularly enjoy to get the complete story.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Fictional "reality" is determined by the employees of the IP holders (writers), including "writers for hire" and the executives/editors/others who shape the product that the writers create.
The fans can comment on and choose to consume or ignore said "reality" but they cannot shape it - nor do they have the authority declare a certain element or as aspect of reality to be fake or disallowed.

@tomalak301 - True, which is why at times I have been forced to ignore or "fast-forward" some part I don't like. It happens, particularly on streaming shows. But it doesn't send me into paroxysms of rage.

 

[Awesome Possum]

In fairness it is hard to stop watching something if it's part of a crossover that includes two shows that you do watch. I don't watch Supergirl, but I do watch Flash and Arrow, and Supergirl was just part of the crossover. I had to watch something I don't particularly enjoy to get the complete story.

That’s how I am for Arrow. I don’t care for it, but seeing Barry and Kara together to always delightful. My only disappointment is that she was separated from Oliver and Barry for most of the episode. The Trigger Twins should’ve been the Trigger Triplets, that would’ve been fun.

 

[tomalak301]

That’s how I am for Arrow. I don’t care for it, but seeing Barry and Kara together to always delightful. My only disappointment is that she was separated from Oliver and Barry for most of the episode. The Trigger Twins should’ve been the Trigger Triplets, that would’ve been fun.

That would have been fun, and then you can still have a scene with Alex later in the episode. One of the questions I had when reality changed again was how did Supergirl end up in the pipeline. Last we saw her in Arrow she was leaving her conversation with Batwoman. Then we could have had Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl basically together for the entire part 3, and it would have felt more of a Supergirl story rather than an Arrow story.

 

[Awesome Possum]

That would have been fun, and then you can still have a scene with Alex later in the episode. One of the questions I had when reality changed again was how did Supergirl end up in the pipeline. Last we saw her in Arrow she was leaving her conversation with Batwoman. Then we could have had Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl basically together for the entire part 3, and it would have felt more of a Supergirl story rather than an Arrow story.

Alex could’ve been a cop and she arrests them, then while driving them to be processed Kara overhears her on the radio about dating some guy. Allowing the scene to go the same way.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I think it is worth noting that Superman was portrayed very differently in part 1 versus part 3 which had different writers. In part 1 which was the flash episode and had the flash writers, Superman was portrayed more positively. Superman does very well in the fight against Amazo. In part 3 which was the Supergirl episode and had the Supergirl writers, Superman does horribly in his fight against the evil superman and at the end of the episode tells Kara she is superior to him and Earth does not need him. This is similar to all of his other appearances on Supergirl. The fact that Superman is only portrayed negatively on the Supergirl show, would certainly seem to suggest that the Supergirl writers either don't know how to write for Superman or are deliberately writing him that way because they want Supergirl to look better. Frankly, this should not be so controversial. We all know Supergirl is a show that is all about girl power. It would follow that the writers want to portray their female lead as the best and better, thus they are writing Superman to reinforce that.

He wasn’t portrayed negatively. He knows he can leave Earth because he knows it will be in safe hands. Not because Earth “doesn’t need him”

 

[Kirk Prime]

I’m going to go talk to the adults about Supergirl. Goodbye.

Ooo! Zing. You sure showed me.

But masculinity must be pretty fragile if the simple act of telling a woman that she’s stronger emasculates a man.

Seems you don't know what emasculating means. That's ok.

He wasn’t portrayed negatively. He knows he can leave Earth because he knows it will be in safe hands. Not because Earth “doesn’t need him”

That's just horrible logic on his and on the part of the writers. But that's not what was said.

Had Superman said something like, "Kara, I'm so proud of the hero you have become, and it makes it easier to tell you this. Lois is pregnant, and for her safety and the safety of the baby, we are going to Argo for the pregnancy. Thanks to you, I know I can leave Earth for awhile because I know it is in good hands, but if you ever need me, you know how to reach me until I get back."

That's a far cry from once again bowing to her superiority and putting himself down. It also is kind of ridiculous that he would leave Metropolis unguarded while Kara lives in National City.

The writers want to belabor a false point that Supergirl is somehow superior both physically and through her character. It's demeaning and emasculating to the Superman character, and they deserve to be called out on it, as I and others have done. It's probably for the best because this isn't Superman, it's Superwimp. If they are going to make this character into a submissive that can't even win a one on one fight without Kara's help, there is no point having him on the show.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Ooo! Zing. You sure showed me.



Seems you don't know what emasculating means. That's ok.



That's just horrible logic on his and on the part of the writers. But that's not what was said.

Had Superman said something like, "Kara, I'm so proud of the hero you have become, and it makes it easier to tell you this. Lois is pregnant, and for her safety and the safety of the baby, we are going to Argo for the pregnancy. Thanks to you, I know I can leave Earth for awhile because I know it is in good hands, but if you ever need me, you know how to reach me until I get back."

That's a far cry from once again bowing to her superiority and putting himself down. It also is kind of ridiculous that he would leave Metropolis unguarded while Kara lives in National City.

The writers want to belabor a false point that Supergirl is somehow superior both physically and through her character. It's demeaning and emasculating to the Superman character, and they deserve to be called out on it, as I and others have done. It's probably for the best because this isn't Superman, it's Superwimp. If they are going to make this character into a submissive that can't even win a one on one fight without Kara's help, there is no point having him on the show.

If a character other than Superman has said that Kara was better, I might be a little more inclinded to take seriously this “emasculating” thing.

But, no.

 

[Romulan_spy]

He wasn’t portrayed negatively. He knows he can leave Earth because he knows it will be in safe hands. Not because Earth “doesn’t need him”

He literally says "Earth does not need a Superman when it has a Supergirl"

 

[dahj]

"Earth does not need a Superman when it has a Supergirl"

 

[Kirk Prime]

If a character other than Superman has said that Kara was better, I might be a little more inclinded to take seriously this “emasculating” thing.

Well, that's kind of exactly what emasculating is. The writers wrote him that way and by doing so, emasculated the character.

It happened. And it's a shame the writers are this sad and have such an inferiority complex when it comes to Superman.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Ooo! Zing. You sure showed me.

Im sure reality does that to you on a daily basis.

Seems you don't know what emasculating means. That's ok.

I’m a trans woman, I have first hand experience with the real thing. It made me better.

That's just horrible logic on his and on the part of the writers. But that's not what was said.

Logic has nothing to do with your argument.

Had Superman said something like, "Kara, I'm so proud of the hero you have become, and it makes it easier to tell you this. Lois is pregnant, and for her safety and the safety of the baby, we are going to Argo for the pregnancy. Thanks to you, I know I can leave Earth for awhile because I know it is in good hands, but if you ever need me, you know how to reach me until I get back."

Superman was trying to make her feel good about herself. Superman doesn’t need to reassure himself or his masculinity. He’s secure and he knows that Kara is still a little unsure about herself. She’s still young and new to crime fighting. That was his way of helping. It’s like a legendary baseball player telling a rookie that they’re better than them. He’s not literally saying she is physically stronger than him. It’s supposed to build her confidence by letting her know that the greatest hero who ever lived trusts her completely and knows she’s going to do fine without him.

That's a far cry from once again bowing to her superiority and putting himself down. It also is kind of ridiculous that he would leave Metropolis unguarded while Kara lives in National City.

Thats entirely in your head and no where else. Kara can fly around the world in seconds, she can protect Metropolis too. Plus he knows she has friends who can lend a hand, even some from other universes if needed.

The writers want to belabor a false point that Supergirl is somehow superior both physically and through her character. It's demeaning and emasculating to the Superman character, and they deserve to be called out on it, as I and others have done. It's probably for the best because this isn't Superman, it's Superwimp. If they are going to make this character into a submissive that can't even win a one on one fight without Kara's help, there is no point having him on the show.

The show is called Supergirl, not Superman and his less powerful female cousin. Her being the star and the focus of the show is to be expected.

If you want to talk about demeaning, let’s talk about your demeaning attitude towards women. Supergirl can’t possibly be stronger than Superman. You even demeaned me by saying
I didn’t understand what emasculation meant. I know what words mean.

 

[dahj]

Mood skimming through the last few pages of this thread:

Seriously, this was one of the funnest three hours of television I've seen in a while, a true joyous celebration of what the Arroverse has become in the past 7 years and all you can do is incessantly complain that a guy was supportive of his cousin?

Grow the fuck up.

 

[Professor Zoom]

He literally says "Earth does not need a Superman when it has a Supergirl"

He literally says more than that.

Well, that's kind of exactly what emasculating is. The writers wrote him that way and by doing so, emasculated the character.

How is that emasculating? Is Superman any less a man? Any less a hero? What IS a man?
If you met a woman who was stronger than you, would you be "emasculated" suddenly?

It happened. And it's a shame the writers are this sad and have such an inferiority complex when it comes to Superman.

I don't think the writers are the ones with a complex.

 

[Spot261]

So, we can all agree that "comedic tone" is not a synonymous for "obviously no one died"?

You would think so, but apparently not.

Strange the sort of places people go in their heads, but personally I'd never considered the possibility of Zod not dying in the theatrical release before today (deleted scenes being essentially the content of a bin and nothing more), so imagine my surprise after all these years (sorry, decades) to be told no one had ever seen it that way

 

[Awesome Possum]

Well, that's kind of exactly what emasculating is. The writers wrote him that way and by doing so, emasculated the character.

It happened. And it's a shame the writers are this sad and have such an inferiority complex when it comes to Superman.

It’s only emasculating if you think that men must always be treated to superior to all women at all times for every reason. Anything that threatens that superiority is an attack.

I’m sure there are women who could easily kick your ass. Some are smarter, some are better artists, and some know more about comics. Does that emasculate you? Knowing that you’re inferior to certain women?

 

[Spot261]

Seems you don't know what emasculating means. That's ok.

I think she knows very well what it means to be fair.

However even if that weren't so we've had the dictionary definition several pages ago and not one person has managed to tie Clark's comments to any aspect of it.

That's a far cry from once again bowing to her superiority and putting himself down. It also is kind of ridiculous that he would leave Metropolis unguarded while Kara lives in National City.

The writers want to belabor a false point that Supergirl is somehow superior both physically and through her character. It's demeaning and emasculating to the Superman character, and they deserve to be called out on it, as I and others have done.

You do know there's a long standing pedigree in the comics for Supergirl being more powerful one on one than Superman? A pedigree going back way before this show was even dreamed up? She follows him as a leader in many situations, but she's by no means his inferior on terms of abilities, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Im sure reality does that to you on a daily basis.

Like your other guesses, you're wrong.

I’m a trans woman, I have first hand experience with the real thing. It made me better.

Good for you. But Superman doesn't want to be a woman.

Superman was trying to make her feel good about herself. Superman doesn’t need to reassure himself or his masculinity. He’s secure and he knows that Kara is still a little unsure about herself. She’s still young and new to crime fighting. That was his way of helping. It’s like a legendary baseball player telling a rookie that they’re better than them. He’s not literally saying she is physically stronger than him. It’s supposed to build her confidence by letting her know that the greatest hero who ever lived trusts her completely and knows she’s going to do fine without him.

Devaluing and making yourself look weak does not make someone look better. Being submissive does not make someone more valuable. Superman could absolutely have done all those things without acting like a submissive wimp, bowing to the superior female. And yes, that does devalue a male.

Um, you haven't watched the show if you don't think these insecure PC writers weren't trying to make her stronger both physically and in character. You can say "you're a great hero" without self deprecation.

Thats entirely in your head and no where else. Kara can fly around the world in seconds, she can protect Metropolis too. Plus he knows she has friends who can lend a hand, even some from other universes if needed.

That's utterly ridiculous. By that logic, Superman could have told Kara not to be a hero because he exists. As fast as Kara is, she can't be in multiple places at once, and if there are multiple supervillains running around, you need multiple heroes. So the idea that Kara is all the world need is just more wishful thinking by a bunch of writers that don't understand Superman.

The show is called Supergirl, not Superman and his less powerful female cousin. Her being the star and the focus of the show is to be expected.

If you want to talk about demeaning, let’s talk about your demeaning attitude towards women. Supergirl can’t possibly be stronger than Superman. You even demeaned me by saying
I didn’t understand what emasculation meant. I know what words mean.

So what? By that ridiculous comment, then on Arrow, Oliver should be able to beat both Kara and Flash in a fight. That's ridiculous. Her being the star of her own show does not require her to be more powerful than Superman, who has existed for 80 years and is well established as the more powerful of the two.

That's writers with a chip on their shoulder, as is your lame fake sexism rants. If you think that's demeaning, then you understand the terms "demeaning," and "sexism" even less than you understand the term "emasculating."

Not surprising.

 

[Spot261]

It’s only emasculating if you think that men must always be treated to superior to all women at all times for every reason. Anything that threatens that superiority is an attack.

I’m sure there are women who could easily kick your ass. Some are smarter, some are better artists, and some know more about comics. Does that emasculate you? Knowing that you’re inferior to certain women?

I have a funny feeling you could kick my ass whilst reading a comic.

Am I emasculated? Nah, not so long as I get dibs on reading it next.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Seriously, this was one of the funnest three hours of television I've seen in a while, a true joyous celebration of what the Arroverse has become in the past 7 years and all you can do is incessantly complain that a guy was supportive of his cousin?

There's a difference between supportive and submissive, especially when dealing with the most iconic superhero character ever.

It was a terrific crossover, but that was a weak point, and a bunch of snowflakes can't handle that there are plenty of people who see past the political correctness.