Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by King Daniel Beyond, Jun 29, 2014.
We'll know if it's exploration if we get long, lingering shots of Sulu staring at the viewscreen.
In what way has Dennis contradicted them?
(Please point to things he actually said in the post quoted, of course, as opposed to your bush-league attempt at putting words in his mouth - poor form, that.)
The majority of the audience probably haven't seen Star Trek before.
I think the moment that best sums it up is Kirk craning his neck to see when the Klingon commander takes off his helmet. Has he ever seen a Klingon before? And have we die-hard fans seen Klingons like this before? All that's old is new again.
I think "exploring strange new worlds" in essence meaning going places we the audience haven't seen before; places that are alien and exciting. Nibiru and Ketha on Kronos fit the bill for me there. The 2009 movie didn't have as much. Maybe Delta Vega and parts of Vulcan. It doesn't matter if the crew have been there before, something like seeing Vulcan in "Amok Time" was enough for us as the audience to see a new world. That's what I would like to continue to see in the movies.
Exactly as stated. It's a pretty simple declarative statement easily supported by familiarity with previous Star Trek narrative. Most Star Trek has not been about space exploration. It simply uses deep space as a setting. Saying that "Star Trek is about exploration" is equivalent to saying something like "Gunsmoke is about archeological investigation of the pre-Columbian cultures of the American desert southwest."
'Cause, you know, there were Indians. One was played by Richardo Montalban.
I love the "entolution.gif" avatar, Ryan8bit.
Thanks. I loathe to mention where I got the idea...
It reminds me of the evolution animation on the original Cosmos TV show.
It's a great day when a white guy can be cast as an Indian guy previously played by a Mexican guy. Progress!
But, you know, we've seen lots of Star Trek narrative about first contact with alien species, encountering previously unknown lifeforms that do all sorts of weird and wonderful and terrifying things, visiting previously un-visited regions of space, recontacting far-flung civilizations and societies that were previously barely glimpsed... that's kind of the bulk of the product, really. Kinda feels disingenuous to try to claim that most Trek narrative hasn't been about exploration.
(I mean, you could say most of it hasn't been about hardcore survival-style Franklin Expedition sort of exploration, that would be fair. It mostly take place in a more comfortable "Royal Navy/American Navy/Odysseus-in-space sort of zone. But that's hardly the bone of contention.)
Of course, in ST09 the crew is encountering something they've never encountered before. But it's clearly more of a "stop the villainous death-ray" plot, such as it is, than an exploration plot. Likewise in STID, there's sort of an encounter-with-the-unknown aspect to Khan... if he hadn't been introduced precisely because the character is known to mass audiences. Even so, pretty weak beer to try to say that's "exploration" plotting on the same level as the bulk of the series.
If Orci knows that -- and he shows wisdom in knowing it -- it shouldn't be too hard for TBBS to fess up to it. Which I take to be mos6507's point.
These guys sound really respectful and filled with hope at writing the next film, and though I'm not familiar with their abilities, I trust Bob Orci to know what he's doing bringing them aboard (and Abrams of course). Looking forward to whatever they come up with.
Was Khan Indian? Because McGivers said he might be?
I think the intent was that Khan was Indian. But, there's a Hell of a lot of wiggle room there because of the way they presented it.
Mebbe, but there's not a thing Indian about him except his name.
I sometimes wonder if "Khan" was just a title he gave himself.
That's always been my take. Khan is either title going back to the Mongols, or a common surname among Muslims in south Asia. Neither the name nor the title have anything to do with Sikhs. Singh is a very common Sikh surname.
I think this has been said on here before, but the writer of "Space Seed" was probably just going for something that sounded exotic and didn't give a rat's ass if the name was authentic or even made ethnic sense. He certainly didn't think the name would be analyzed nearly fifty years later.
Khan's evolution is interesting. He starts off as a straight up criminal named Harald Ericsson Then becomes a Viking "Superman" with the names Ragnar Thorwald/John Ericssen. For some reason they change him into an Indian by the final draft. Some speculate it was Montalban's casting that prompted the change. Though why he couldn't have become a Hispanic character escapes me. The name "Khan Noonien Singh" seems to be Roddenberry's idea. As way to get on contact with an old service buddy from WWII, called Kim Noonien Wang or Singh. IIRC Roddenberry served in the South Pacific, so his buddy could have been native to that region.
As Johnny Carson used to say, "I did not know that."
Edited to add: Given that Montalban had played Native American characters on westerns, you don't suppose when they cast Montalban and someone suggested changing his character to an Indian that the person really meant -- ? Nah.
This was a HUGE fight (and I mean that) over ID. Abrams was even called racist and Cumberbatch's casting was called "whitewashing" because of the original episode showing Montalban as Indian.
Personally, I could not believe it. The original dialog was something about him possibly being a Sikh, as they were "fierce warriors." It was a throwaway line, especially when Khan is revealed as a genetically engineered superman. To me, the "genetically engineered" part should be more important, regardless of what he claims to be.
No offense is meant in this post to any Indians, or other ethnic groups. My apologies if I got any details wrong.
I think there is little doubt what the original intent was. His name is a deliberate corruption of Noonian Soong Hernandez, Noonian Soong's illegitimate half-Klingon nephew augment who travelled back in time to India and declared himself a Khan to finish Arik's job without Federation interference.
Separate names with a comma.