New TOS ship design

[Hyperspace05]

What mission does this vessel serve? Generally speaking, a "shuttlecarrier" would only really be useful in a purely military roll (and even most TOS-era shuttlecarrier designs we've seen - fan-made, mind you - are multi-roll ships with cargo facilities, weapons, large crew quartering areas, etc.

My personal favorites are this one...
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/shuttlecarrier_archangel.jpg
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/SF-Conversions/Rifts-Trek-Ships/Federation_USS_Archangel.htm

And this one...
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/shuttlecarrier_ariel.jpg

(I'd just as soon "link" those as images, but TrekBBS frowns on "hotlinking" so you'll have to click 'em yourself, I'm afraid...)

UGH... The 'carrier' designs you linked to are IMO the worst examples of kitbashing, or adding stuff to an existing design that just breaks down the balance.

The OP at least came up with a fresh idea, which I think is worth expanding on.

You ought to be very careful about attacking the work of others. And FYI, those designs are in no way "kitbashed." They actually make plausible sense, and one actually uses NO pre-existing components or design elements whatsoever.

Whoa... A bit sensitive, aren't we?

As for the Ariel... No prior design elements used?
http://trekmovie.com/images/tmpentmcq.jpg
(the Ralph McQuarrie Enterprise concept - Yes, I know there are differences, but they aren't major)
It is a better design than the Archangel, but I've never liked that concept. (due to component size balance, and that the engineering section shape is a taaad to much SW inspired)

The Archangel, on the other hand, is built upon the idea that much of Starfleet at the time was being built using mass-produced framing elements and subsystems and so forth. Yet it makes excellent sense, both internally and externally.

But it loses all balance... It's the same thing as extending the engineering hull of the TOS enterprise backwards and adding a bunch of shuttle bays sticking out at angles. Practical? Perhaps. An elegant and balanced Star Trek design? Not so much. A good fan design should look like it obeys the rules (implied or otherwise) of the universe it is intended for. I could rebrand a B5/SW/BSG ship as a Trek ship, and it might be practical, but it wouldn't look like it belonged in Star Trek.

You personally don't like them. That's cool. But I think that they're both very well-balanced, very well-thought-out, and look good to boot. And by making your comment in the way you did, you're also insulting my sense of taste, of logic and design... you're insulting ME, even though I didn't design these myself, because I said I liked them.

Oh please. Opinions differ. All posts on an internet forum are inherently 'IMO' branded.

 

[trekkerguy]

The only one that looks decent at all is the Phase II style design,
the other two look like shitty gargantuan Miranda class.

 

[Ptrope]

Hyperspace05 and trekkerguy - a little courtesy goes a long way. The rolleyes, the "oh please" and the scatological adjectives are unnecessary. Let's all start the new year like we actually respect one another and have vocabularies somewhere above the gutter.

Thanks!

 

[SonicRanger]

Back to the ship at hand:

I'd like to suggest that the OP consider the Airbus Beluga...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Beluga

... as a real-life example to consider for this vessel.

It isn't just a cargo container with wings. Instead, it is clearly identifiable as an airplane, just exaggerated in a way to allow for a lot of cargo. Similarly, there is a cockpit where we'd expect, just like there are hatches, a tail, and other features of an airplane where expected.'

So that's what I'd suggest -- think of this first as a starship with all the necessary parts and systems. Don't just make it a hangar with nacelles.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Yes, the Airbus transporter is an *excellent* analogy to what I think the OP intended this to be - a flexible large capacity transport. (correct me if I'm wrong)


And Ptrope - if rolleyes are inappropriate for this forum, I suggest that they are removed from the smilie options.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Back to the ship at hand:

I'd like to suggest that the OP consider the Airbus Beluga...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Beluga

... as a real-life example to consider for this vessel.

It isn't just a cargo container with wings. Instead, it is clearly identifiable as an airplane, just exaggerated in a way to allow for a lot of cargo. Similarly, there is a cockpit where we'd expect, just like there are hatches, a tail, and other features of an airplane where expected.'

So that's what I'd suggest -- think of this first as a starship with all the necessary parts and systems. Don't just make it a hangar with nacelles.

Damn, but that's an ugly plane... outstanding for the job it does, but Day-ammmm...

Still, I agree entirely that it's probably a great reference to look at in terms of making the OP's ship design "work." I like the idea of a cockpit/bridge/whatever forward and below the fore bay doors.

When I mentioned carriers, this is actually a Trekkian (and, as far as I know, real-life... though I'm unfamiliar with any real-life examples) concept called a "through-deck carrier.

The idea of a through-deck carrier is that it has landing and launching zones which can be in use, full time, on a rotating basis. You can be landing and launching simultaneously.

"Starfleet Prototypes" had a nice example of one of these, as I recall, and "Ships of the Starfleet" had a TOS-era version which was basically a heavy-cruiser with a different secondary hull. Jackill also did a couple of these, as I recall. But I think Aridas' one was the first I'd seen in the Trek venue.

A quick websearch showed me a decent page giving detail on the Coronado, Aridas' version. Here's a link: http://www.dewdrops.org/mywebdev/projects/games/stcs/starship-reference/Federation/Coronado.pdf

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I have a proposal with regards to nacelle location and engineering facilities. As it is, the nacelles feel kinda... tacked on. By creating a dedicated engineering section of the hull, a more asthetically pleasing mount for the nacelles can be created. I've also taken the liberty of proposing a location for the habitat section, though like Cary, the idea of an underslung bridge is appealing to me (Turn the lower "chin" into crew habitation/workspace and put the bridge there?) Basically, keeping the Airbus Beluga/Blimp Hangar look while making it a bit more shiplike. Anyways, my rough sketch:

 

[SonicRanger]

^^^

Very TAS (or TOS-remastered: http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x02hd/charliexhd001.jpg)

I'd envisioned something similar -- well done!

 

[Vance]

I would look more at the Sherman/Antares (TOS-R) for details on the underhull, and I would ditch the NCC for the time period, and go for NCC-T or something.

 

[Klondike307]

sorry for being MIA today. My internet is down and i'm making this post on my phone. Thanks for all the input!

To answer a few questions:
The design is not done yet, still a lot to add.
There are 3 decks under the hanger
The bridge is in the front of the first lower deck as someone pointed out
There is a ship/cargo bay under the middle of the hanger on the first 2 decks with 2 elevators to the hanger
There are crew areas is in the front, back and side of the deck under the hanger bay and on the front and back of the deck below that.
The ship is about 8 decks tall

I can't stand typing on my phone so thats all for now I will post a cross section tomorrow

 

[Klondike307]

Sorry it took me so long to get this up. I’m getting ready to start my last semester of college in a week and have been quite busy. This cross-section isn’t my best work; I just wanted to quickly put something together so you all could see the general layout of the interior. I’ll be adding pics of the updated model soon. Thanks again for all the comments! Even the negative feedback helps... for the most part.

The Hawk is a long range multipurpose transport vessel. Theses are just of few of the roles it could play. (Feel free to add your own ideas)

Military Carrier: The Hawk can carry 3 squadrons of Fighters and their pilots or can be used to transport large numbers of ground soldiers and their gear.

Colony Re-supply: The Hawk can be used to re-supply multiple colonies simultaneously with food and equipment through the use of its large Cargo Bay and small fleet of transport Shuttles.

Evacuation: The Hawk can be used as a relief ship and sustain several hundred people for up to 2 weeks due to an emergency evacuation of a colony or space station.

Deck by deck

Observation Deck: Flight Control stations fore and aft.Two ladders, port and starboard, through the main hanger support beams connect the observation deck to the hanger deck.

Hanger Deck: Hanger Doors fore and aft. Hanger can accommodate many small shuttles and fighters or several larger vessels. Turbo shafts to A Deck located port and starboard in center of hanger.

A Deck: Fore: Bridge, Flight Command, Transporter. Port and Starboard: Crew quarters. Aft: Mess hall, recreation area. Center of A Deck makes up the upper area of the Cargo Bay.

B Deck: Fore: Deflector control, Duty Stations. Cargo Bay: Cargo storage, Shuttle maintenance and storage, Cargo Transporters, two cargo lifts to the hanger deck. Aft: Main Engineering.

C Deck: sensors, electronics, scientific instruments, maintenance shaft, etc.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Very nice, very nice. I see how it all comes together now.

One question though: where is the impulse drive?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Sorry it took me so long to get this up. I’m getting ready to start my last semester of college in a week and have been quite busy. This cross-section isn’t my best work; I just wanted to quickly put something together so you all could see the general layout of the interior. I’ll be adding pics of the updated model soon. Thanks again for all the comments! Even the negative feedback helps... for the most part.

The Hawk is a long range multipurpose transport vessel. Theses are just of few of the roles it could play. (Feel free to add your own ideas)

Military Carrier: The Hawk can carry 3 squadrons of Fighters and their pilots or can be used to transport large numbers of ground soldiers and their gear.

Colony Re-supply: The Hawk can be used to re-supply multiple colonies simultaneously with food and equipment through the use of its large Cargo Bay and small fleet of transport Shuttles.

Evacuation: The Hawk can be used as a relief ship and sustain several hundred people for up to 2 weeks due to an emergency evacuation of a colony or space station.

Deck by deck

Observation Deck: Flight Control stations fore and aft.Two ladders, port and starboard, through the main hanger support beams connect the observation deck to the hanger deck.

Hanger Deck: Hanger Doors fore and aft. Hanger can accommodate many small shuttles and fighters or several larger vessels. Turbo shafts to A Deck located port and starboard in center of hanger.

A Deck: Fore: Bridge, Flight Command, Transporter. Port and Starboard: Crew quarters. Aft: Mess hall, recreation area. Center of A Deck makes up the upper area of the Cargo Bay.

B Deck: Fore: Deflector control, Duty Stations. Cargo Bay: Cargo storage, Shuttle maintenance and storage, Cargo Transporters, two cargo lifts to the hanger deck. Aft: Main Engineering.

C Deck: sensors, electronics, scientific instruments, maintenance shaft, etc.

Okay, then...

The reason that some of the criticism came out originally was due to a mistaken sense of scale (assuming that the doors were roughly TOS-sized).

NOW, however, I still have concerns, but they're totally different concerns.

So, I'm very curious... why such a massive hangar space? Other than to make it look "TOS-ish," I mean. After all... what purpose is served by all that open space above the landing deck? Certainly the shuttlecraft don't require that... it's not useful for any other purpose... and it's so large that an explosive-decompression event would literally be EXPLOSIVE.

The only way that this space makes sense to me would be if, for instance, you had rack-mounted launch rails for, say, fightercraft suspended from the ceiling. Sort of like Star Wars does with TIE Fighters... and not ENTIRELY dissimilar to how Starfuries are handled in Babylon 5. In that case, all that wasted space would no longer be "wasted."

Another approach would be to suspend a second floor midway up. But then, if you asked me, it would make more sense to have two sets of doors, so each bay would be essentially independent.

But if you really wanted to keep the basic layout as you have it... I'd simply slice off the upper portion and put a flattened top onto it... which would allow your door mechanics to remain unchanged for the most part, wouldn't lose the ship ANY of its functionality (as far as I can see) and would save a significant amount of metric tonnage (as well as making it less visible on sensors).

Oh... and I still can't tell where the sublight drives are located.

Just my 2cents...

 

[Klondike307]

So, I'm very curious... why such a massive hangar space? Other than to make it look "TOS-ish," I mean. After all... what purpose is served by all that open space above the landing deck? Certainly the shuttlecraft don't require that... it's not useful for any other purpose... and it's so large that an explosive-decompression event would literally be EXPLOSIVE.

The bay is large to accommodate a verity of ships from small shuttles to large multi level tankers and transports. I just chose to use the TOS shuttle to give an example of scale and what the ship could carry on a particular mission. Like I said it’s a multipurpose ship.

The only way that this space makes sense to me would be if, for instance, you had rack-mounted launch rails for, say, fightercraft suspended from the ceiling. Sort of like Star Wars does with TIE Fighters... and not ENTIRELY dissimilar to how Starfuries are handled in Babylon 5. In that case, all that wasted space would no longer be "wasted."

I also thought about this while I was doing early designs of the ship. The ship can be modified to carry larger numbers of fighters through the use of a suspended rack from the top of the hanger. I will try to show this in future images I upload.

Oh... and I still can't tell where the sublight drives are located.

The impulse engines are on either side of main engineering in the rear of B Deck. You’ll be able to see them in the next round of pictures.

 

[ancient]

Looking good.

 

[Hyperspace05]

I like the extra detail you have added... But then I'm always a sucker for schematics that include deck layouts.

My main critique is that not enough space seems to be dedicated to the ships systems. (warp core, fuel storage, crew quarters, etc) But that could just be because you haven't drawn those sections yet I suppose. But I had assumed that the whole area below the main bay level would be 'regular' ship stuff, and not open to to another massive cargo bay.

But keep going... More detail is always cool to see.

 

[SonicRanger]

Hmmmm... Now it seems even more like a big hangar with nacelles thrown on.

There isn't much space for "starship stuff" in the design while there is plenty of wide open space. Why would our imaginary starship designers built a ship with such little space devoted to the crew and the systems they need to breath, eat, sleep, and work?

The "deflector on a stick" is a perfect example of this. It just connects directly to what I assume is the bridge. No room is alloted for the machinery to make it work. Even if you assume it is just a passive sensor, there should still be some "guts" there to make it work. Similarly, even if left room on the exterior for the impulse engines, there are no "guts" for them either.

Starfleet ships never seem cramped, like space is never really an issue for them. There are bowling alleys, arboreta, etc. Space certainly doesn't seem an issue for the shuttles on this ship, so it makes little sense for a Starfleet design to cram in the crew like this.

 

[RedSpar]

Whooh... Fits! (barely)

 

[Patrickivan]

She's a beauty.

You may also want to considers making top internal images, showing it deck by deck.

And watch out for Redspar's ship scratching your hanger!

 

[Klondike307]

I thought I should post this to help show just how much room is available on the two crew decks of the Hawk. Keep in mind this ship isn’t the jewel of the fleet like Enterprise. It’s a little cramped. The reason the hanger and cargo bay are so big compared to the other decks is because transportation is the ships primary function, whether it be cargo, fighters, shuttle, small ships, soldiers, civilians etc. It’s not an explorer, science vessel, or a warship. It’s more of a workhorse, designed for transport. You wouldn’t invite dignitaries and ambassadors to stay on it. The missions rarely take more then a month so you don’t have to worry about keeping the crew entertained for 5 years.

The A Deck configuration is the same as when I first started. The B Deck has changed some due to some things I accidentally left out (Impulse Engines, Phasers) and others which I decided to change after getting feed back from you all. The Deflector now goes strait into the front of B Deck as apposed to dangling from bottom of A Deck. The Nacelles have been lowered and are now even with B Deck and good directly into that deck. The nacelle pylons now intersect with phaser and impulse assemble and look pretty cool.

The standard crew complement for the Hawk is 100 crew members. Between the officer’s rooms with 2 beds and the large enlisted room which have 5 triple bunked beds a piece, there is room for 180 people. These extra bunks are use when the ship is carrying several squads of fighter pilots or when it is being used in a relief mission. In a pinch, setting up racks in the cargo bay can increase that number by several hundred in the event of troop deployment or an evacuation.

The crew recreation area of the ship is located in the aft section of A Deck. They include a gym, bowling alley, and a lounge/mess hall. A basketball half-court is also set up in the fore section of the Cargo Bay on B Deck when the space is available.

While some ship systems, like the Deflector, Warp Drive, and Impulse engines, are located on the crew decks; many systems are housed in the ship’s C Deck.

That’s all I have for now. Now that I’m done with the cross-sections, I have time to update the 3d model with the new features. Once again, thanks for all the comments, and keep’em coming!