New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

[cooleddie74]

Meh. Maybe so. Either way there's quite a bit of drama involved and Obi-Wan conducts an investigation. Might have been interesting to see the Jedi Council back on Coruscant go ballistic over learning that somebody 10 years earlier had pretended to be one of them to surreptitiously create a vast army of human clones trained for warfare. It might open up quite the array of paranoia within the Order over who could be using and tarnishing their good name to undermine galactic security, since the Sith were hardly the only forces in the cosmos who wanted to do the Jedi harm.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In film/TV canon, I think that the Barriss Offee storyline was about the best it's been done.

Say what???

We were speaking of the supporting characters, so I meant besides Anakin. Which Jedi's fall to the dark side was "better" (by which I mean more poignant) than either Anakin's or Barriss's?

 

[Reverend]

In film/TV canon, I think that the Barriss Offee storyline was about the best it's been done.

I wouldn't call that a fall to the dark side so much as disillusionment with the war and the Order in general. Basically she's pissed of, not evil.
Indeed, she might be the very opposite of dark side since I got the vague impression that her actions seem to be motivated by a subconscious intuition that something is very very wrong. Like there's a Sith Lord in the room wrong. If so and even though she didn't pin down the source of the feeling, that's something even Yoda couldn't pick up on.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In film/TV canon, I think that the Barriss Offee storyline was about the best it's been done.

I wouldn't call that a fall to the dark side so much as disillusionment with the war and the Order in general. Basically she's pissed of, not evil.
Indeed, she might be the very opposite of dark side since I got the vague impression that her actions seem to be motivated by a subconscious intuition that something is very very wrong. Like there's a Sith Lord in the room wrong. If so and even though she didn't pin down the source of the feeling, that's something even Yoda couldn't pick up on.

Interesting take. If she was able to keep from falling, however unlikely that might be, or even if she could come back and redeem herself, that would be significant!

It's just that Yoda said that starting down the dark path was irreversible, and she was tricked into doing that by the dark side, or so I read the situation.

 

[Reverend]

I don't think someone can be "tricked" into falling to the dark side. Manipulated into a certain state of mind sure, but not bent against their will.

Mind you, the nature of the dark side and what it means to fall has never been fully explained (neither has the light side come to that.) I think even Lucas has changed his mind over the years since I'm pretty sure years back he described the relationship between the two sides as being like a parasite vs. a symbiont. That the dark side acts like a cancer on the light and must be destroyed to restore balance. But then there's the mortis story arc which presented the relationship much more like a Zen Buddhist yin/yang, life/death arrangement where too much "light" was just as dangerous as too much "dark".

I think some EU authors have also interpreted it as being as simple as a reflection of the emotions with which a person draws in the force. But I think even that's been contradicted.

As for Barris, if she was still in prison when order 66 came down then it's even money as to whether or not she survived. Most likely she was killed in her cell by clones, but it's possible she was able to escape. That's assuming Palpatine didn't try recruiting her in some capacity.

 

[Christopher]

Frankly I'd rather have Ahsoka in hiding with her head down or just plain dead than be yet another good character who turns to the dark side. A few are okay but when we're talking about Miss Teen Sunshine Ahsoka let's not.

Victim, maybe. Perpetrator, nope.

I have to disagree. Ahsoka is one of the few prominent female protagonists in the franchise, and a strong role model for girls in the audience, so I don't think it would be a good idea at all to make her a victim. I wouldn't want her to turn evil, but if she did, at least she'd still have power and agency. They're both bad choices, but if it came down to one or the other, I'd rather not see her victimized or fridged.

 

[davejames]

There aren't a lot of TCW characters or plotlines I'd really like to see revisited in the new show, but I do think it'd be kind of cool to see Ahsoka again. She was one of the few prequel-era characters I actually liked, and who seemed to have the same fire and spirit as the characters in the OT. She'd probably fit in really well there.

 

[Set Harth]

That the dark side acts like a cancer on the light and must be destroyed to restore balance.

No, Lucas never said any such thing. He only ever used a cancer analogy in the context of describing the unhealthy dynamic embodied by the Sith, while he never said that the dark side could or should be "destroyed", nor have any of his characters done so. Mortis did not represent a change on his part because he has consistently portrayed the dark side as a fundamental part of the Force, both during the OT days and more recently. All light side and no dark side, all of one thing and none of the other, is hardly any kind of balance anyway; it's as unbalanced as you can get.

But I think even that's been contradicted.

Do you mean by other EU? If so, yes, the EU is all over the place.

 

[ALF]

More Lego-induced spoilers, this time with a few minifig images of the main characters.
Bonus if you read German!
http://www.starwars-union.de/nachrichten/13664/Rebels-Lego-Impressionen_aus_Nuernberg/

 

[Christopher]

Odd that one of them has a lightsaber. With the Jedi in hiding, I would've thought Vader would be the only wielder of such a weapon at this point in the saga. Unless this character is Vader's apprentice, maybe? He seems to be in pure black armor, though it's hard to see with the reflections.

 

[cooleddie74]

The "grumpy Stormtrooper" comments about the animated design of the pre-ANH Stormies are pretty amusing. The new Stormtroopers do have an unintentional resemblance to Grumpy Cat so it's just a matter of time before one of these guys gets turned into a meme by the fans (if he hasn't already).

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The "grumpy Stormtrooper" comments about the animated design of the pre-ANH Stormies are pretty amusing. The new Stormtroopers do have an unintentional resemblance to Grumpy Cat so it's just a matter of time before one of these guys gets turned into a meme by the fans (if he hasn't already).

Dude. I pointed out issues with the helmet proportions up front. There's no accident there. If there's anything unintentional, it's in looking like Grumpy Cat specifically. But, that there was a deliberate effort to make the helmets emote in a way typically consistent with cartoon tropes aimed at youngsters, there nothing unintentional about that at all!

 

[cooleddie74]

Oh, you'd addressed the helmets already? Sorry, I'd forgotten. Still, give some fans a little bit of time and the Grumpy Stormie memes will start. It's not how I'd have designed the helmets for the new show, but then I've never drawn nor sketched a Stormtrooper so it appeals to kids. I'm more of a ”draw it the way it actually looks and if other people care and like it they'll follow” fan and person.

I'm not a big fan of some animation tropes.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Eh, no big deal. I think the Grumpy Cat comment nails the issue much more clearly than I did. What I said late last year probably wasn't really very memorable:

It conveys a "this is an animated series" message without looking too tacky and little-kid-focused, plus it's a classic OT Stormtrooper helmet and that means a lot to a lot of old school Star Wars fans who prefer the original films and adventures set in that timeframe to anything in the Prequel and Clone Wars eras.

I'm not sure, but at first glance, it looks like they may have made the eyes larger and/or with a different shape than they are in the live action helmets. Whatever it is, the troopers look somehow more innocent now. That impression is not promising to me.

Looks like you were noticing it too, though.

 

[cooleddie74]

Seems as if I was a little more fond of the helmet design then than I am now, but - meh. It's an Original Trilogy Stormtrooper and I'll grade it on a bit of a curve because I'm biased.

 

[Set Harth]

Odd that one of them has a lightsaber. With the Jedi in hiding, I would've thought Vader would be the only wielder of such a weapon at this point in the saga.

There's also the Pau'an Inquisitor...

 

[cooleddie74]

It's possible Vader and the Emperor gave the Inquisitor special permission to wield a crimson-crystal and bladed lightsaber to carry out his special work in the field. Perhaps he was a Pau'an of high status who stuck his finger in the wind, decided to go the direction the wind was blowing and ingratiated himself to the new regime, offering his special skills whatever they might be. Over the course of time he earned enough points with and respect from the Emperor and Vader that they allowed him to wield the weapon of the Sith and Jedi.

Let's not forget, the Sith who now ruled that galaxy also used lightsaber combat to achieve their goals if necessary so it's not just a weapon of an extinct old order or sad, ancient religion. Vader wore his own weapon clipped to his belt and in plain view of many who didn't have a clue what the weapon even was.

 

[FreezeC77]

I think since generally blue colored lightsaber equals Jedi that he's probably not a Sith. I know there are some exceptions and some Sith who were Jedi and went to the darkside kept their lightsabers in the EU, but I expect that he's probably a rogue Jedi.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

After going through my reservations on Genndy Tartakovsky's artistic style, and that of Filoni's subsequent interpretation of it, I'm going to give the artistic style of this incarnation a bit of leeway. If the stories are good - as they were with both Tartakovsky and Filoni 1.0 - then the style won't make one bit of difference to me.

 

[Kaijima]

I don't think someone can be "tricked" into falling to the dark side. Manipulated into a certain state of mind sure, but not bent against their will.

Mind you, the nature of the dark side and what it means to fall has never been fully explained (neither has the light side come to that.) I think even Lucas has changed his mind over the years since I'm pretty sure years back he described the relationship between the two sides as being like a parasite vs. a symbiont. That the dark side acts like a cancer on the light and must be destroyed to restore balance. But then there's the mortis story arc which presented the relationship much more like a Zen Buddhist yin/yang, life/death arrangement where too much "light" was just as dangerous as too much "dark".

I think some EU authors have also interpreted it as being as simple as a reflection of the emotions with which a person draws in the force. But I think even that's been contradicted.

As for Barris, if she was still in prison when order 66 came down then it's even money as to whether or not she survived. Most likely she was killed in her cell by clones, but it's possible she was able to escape. That's assuming Palpatine didn't try recruiting her in some capacity.

I think the most coherent picture of the dark side is that it represents the easiest path to power and that fact corrupts emotions and the mentality of the user. Light and Dark are equal in absolute terms. Dark just means the user values acquiring and using power over whatever collateral damage is done - it's not even necessarily the will to harm and do evil for evil's sake.

Thus I would guess someone could be manipulated into falling into Dark side thrall by making them frustrated and hungry enough to begin using the Force for direct abuse of their environment and other people. Could be the only good way to portray a character who doesn't have it in them to be evil for the joy of murder, turning to the Dark side. I think it's inconsistently portrayed whether or not, once a person is riding the Dark power, the Dark itself infuses them with even more destructive emotions and desires. It may only amplify what they're feeling, making it very hard to turn away from the Dark.