New Short Trek: Ask Not

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by antinoos, Nov 6, 2019.

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How Would You Rate "Ask Not"?

This poll will close on Nov 14, 2020 at 6:44 AM.
  1. 10

    11.3%
  2. 9

    7.5%
  3. 8

    30.2%
  4. 7

    22.6%
  5. 6

    9.4%
  6. 5

    7.5%
  7. 4

    7.5%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    1.9%
  10. 1

    1.9%
  1. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I mean, I'm not a big TV watcher either, but everything I've seen in the last decade other than The Orville has been serialized. Absolutely everything. Which is really tiresome, because sometimes you want to have a short story instead of a novel, and there's benefits of doing the "anthology with a fixed cast" thing that Star Trek, the X Files, and other shows in the past did so well.

    I recently watched a podcast where they interviewed Ira Steven Behr of DS9 fame. At one point he talked about how there are fundamentally two different kinds of stories - plot-driven stories, and character-driven ones. He said he finds plot-driven stories functionally speaking kind of boring, because there isn't much depth beyond "this happens this week." and always tried to keep DS9's focus on the character growth and development. While a completely procedural show robs characters of the ability to grow, a completely serialized one makes them "slaves to the arc" in a certain sense, often reduced to implements to move the grand plot of the season along.
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    See, I completely disagree, at least if it is done well. I don't see characters or their growth as "slaves to the arc." I'll admit my biases here but procedurals drive me nuts with lack of character growth, for the most part. As will all things there are exceptions.

    Also, I should clarify. I'm not saying TV hasn't been producing more serialized content because that is absolutely the case. I'm saying that I had such a fill of episodic TV and consequenceless stories that I flat out gave up. Like, I enjoyed Farscape, and SG-1 and things like that but there were times where it was like "What was the point?" I became almost a nihilist in my entertainment view-nothing matters.

    I don't have a better way of explaining it other than being pretty jaded with most entertainment at this point. Star Trek being one of the view I can jump in to with no pretense.
     
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  3. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I'll admit I haven't watched true procedurals in forever. But the most episodic modern show I have seen is, as I said, The Orville. And while it's episodic by the standards of today, it's basically (particularly in the second season) structured a lot like Deep Space Nine, insofar as the characters do grow and change over the course of the season, and actions will have lasting consequences. The point being, there really is no "reset button" in place on the show.

    I think as long as the individual characters continue to grow and deepen, it really doesn't matter if you tell one story or fifteen across a given season in terms of how engaged people are.

    Real life, after all, has no plot. It does however have character development.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    And that's the appeal to me of DSC and things like Daredevil or even Fuller House. There is no real reset button. But, the other side of that coin is do I care about the characters. And, in many shows, that isn't the case.
     
  5. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    Yep.

    If they're going to serialized it they have to make it worth my time, hour after hour. This ST:D shit doesn't make the cut.
     
  6. TPezz

    TPezz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    They are never going to go back to episodic shows in the age of streaming. With streaming, you have to tune in each week to find out what happens. It ties you to watching it. You can’t come in part way through the season and not understand what’s going. You have to start from the beginning. Episodic is fine when it’s airing on commercial tv, cause viewers will find it by flipping through channels. With streaming, you actually have to look for the show you want to watch.

    With the dominance of streaming, I don’t see episodic Trek, or most other streaming exclusive shows, returning anytime soon.
     
  7. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    I recently decided to try and do a TNG re-watch and couldn't do it purely because I was getting so pissed off at how nothing the characters did really mattered, because by next week it would be forgotten. Rick Berman is to blame for TNG's lack of serialisation because he wanted the show to be accessible when it went into syndication. The worst offense is probably Picard's recovery from being assimilated. Picard's guilt and trauma really should have been explored over multiple episodes, but considering the writers had to fight for 'Family' to be produced it was never going to happen. As a result, TNG and VOY have become shows that I put on when I want some background noise while I'm cooking, cleaning or doing something on my laptop. I just can't get interested or invested in them anymore.
     
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  8. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I don't think this is really true, at least for me. I think most folks are smart enough to pick up on things.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I do it all the time... :shrug:
     
  10. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not sure I get this. Particularly the bolded. With streaming, you don't need to tune in each week to find out what happens at all. Everything's always sitting there, meaning you can discover a show years after it began, and take your time getting up to speed.

    Now, there is an argument that Netflix-style streaming - where you dump a whole season at once - lends itself to serialization. But I think a stronger case can be made if you're going to do this you should just dispense with "seasons" all together. Just write an arc to be as long as it needs to be for story purposes (three, seven, twelve - however many episodes) and wrap it up, put it online, and work on the next story.

    If you continue to do what CBS All Access does - and release shows as if they're still on broadcast, one episode per week - then they really aren't packaged for binge watching, meaning episodic can still work just as well.
     
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  11. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    Okay, I was wrong about the name.
     
  12. Lakenheath 72

    Lakenheath 72 Commodore Commodore

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    Sep 28, 2014
    The main issue with serialization is that there has to be a single unifying vision for the whole season, a map with the all the major plot pints laid out. When this fails apart, as I believe is what happen to both seasons of Discovery, the show fall short of its potential. As there has been no news of major changes in the leadership, it would seem to indicate that the next season will see Discovery reaching its full potential. Here's to hoping. :beer:
     
    eschaton likes this.
  13. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    Yep.

    Beginnings are somewhat arbitrary; where a story starts depends on what story you're telling.

    And it's dumb to try to write a fifteen hour multi-part story when you're struggling to write an adequate hour-long script, as the STD folks do.
     
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  14. Ketwolski

    Ketwolski Ensign Red Shirt

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    This is my current working theory. Its all a test for that Cadet, something similar to Wesleys experiance in TNG.
     
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  15. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Are you the Ketwolski with the YouTube channel?
     
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  16. Ketwolski

    Ketwolski Ensign Red Shirt

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    I am indeed! :) Been a stalker on the forums for awhile...figured I should start posting.
     
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  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Welcome! I've enjoyed your videos (responded a few times). Keep up the good work!
     
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  18. Ketwolski

    Ketwolski Ensign Red Shirt

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    Thank you for the kind words, and for checking out the channel! Next comment you make let me know it's you so we can chat there too!
     
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  19. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Awesome! Unfortunately, I'll have nothing to say about Ask Not. I've put CBSA on hiatus until some episodes of Picard build up. Perhaps I'll see you in some of the other forums here.
     
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  20. Ketwolski

    Ketwolski Ensign Red Shirt

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    Indeed! Well you can always catch my review of it next weekend! In the meantime, its speculation abound!! :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019 at 10:42 AM
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