New plot element confirmed by Trekmovie (Spoiler)
- Thread starter Jon1701
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I will say that one thing that MIGHT make it worth seeing is to find out why his solution got him a commendation for original thinking rather than at least repremanded or even demoted for cheating on the exam.
I'll admit there has to be something about what he did that is differentiated from simple cheating by getting the questions or an answer key to an exam beforehand. Neither of which would get a person a commendation, no matter how cleverly it was done.
Who says they'll spend time showing the scheme?
Spock may first meet Kirk in a situation where we see Kirk beat the test - and is immediately caught for having reprogrammed it.
One might wonder what a tightassed Vulcan kid would immediately think of a cadet who did that.
Here's an Obvious Prediction: at some point in this movie, Young Kirk will explain his actions in some situation to Young Spock with the phrase, "I don't like to lose."
Spock may first meet Kirk in a situation where we see Kirk beat the test - and is immediately caught for having reprogrammed it.
One might wonder what a tightassed Vulcan kid would immediately think of a cadet who did that.
Here's an Obvious Prediction: at some point in this movie, Young Kirk will explain his actions in some situation to Young Spock with the phrase, "I don't like to lose."
I don't think the point of this plot element will be Kirk rigging the computer.
His decision to cheat deserves screen time, but we honestly don't need to see him actually do it. It makes more sense to show him taking the test a second time.
The formative moments for the character of James Kirk are losing, and then winning. The interesting parts of this story feature the Kobayashi Maru itself. Unless they come up with an extremely creative way for Kirk to cheat, the only reason to include this is because of its usefulness in characterizing Kirk -- and in that respect, showing him lose, decide to cheat, win, and then get rewarded for it is a great idea.
And, if I recall correctly, in TWOK, Spock knew the story. Just a thought.
His decision to cheat deserves screen time, but we honestly don't need to see him actually do it. It makes more sense to show him taking the test a second time.
The formative moments for the character of James Kirk are losing, and then winning. The interesting parts of this story feature the Kobayashi Maru itself. Unless they come up with an extremely creative way for Kirk to cheat, the only reason to include this is because of its usefulness in characterizing Kirk -- and in that respect, showing him lose, decide to cheat, win, and then get rewarded for it is a great idea.
And, if I recall correctly, in TWOK, Spock knew the story. Just a thought.
He cheats to defeat the Rommies,turning an academy "test" in to a world saving moment, and is forced to give up the love of his life while doing so.
Sounds obvious to me.
Sounds obvious to me.
Which may not be the focus of those scenes anyway.
Nothing about this project so far sounds even glancingly like it's going to be "Kirk Begins."
The focus of those Academy scenes may be on what Spock sees and experiences as far as Kirk and the other humans are concerned.
Saavik was a full lieutenant. So the KM must be a "further training" exercise for very junior (not long out of the Academy) command track officers.
Kirk did the simulation a number of times. Finding out it was "no win," his cheating may have been a philosophical statement that there is no such thing as a "no win" situation. After all, he said in TWOK he rigged it so there was a way he COULD win, not so that he WOULD win. A subtle but important difference.
As McCoy put it in TSFS, that's what Kirk always did best, give himself a chance to succeed, even when there seemed to be no chance for it.
Kirk did the simulation a number of times. Finding out it was "no win," his cheating may have been a philosophical statement that there is no such thing as a "no win" situation. After all, he said in TWOK he rigged it so there was a way he COULD win, not so that he WOULD win. A subtle but important difference.
As McCoy put it in TSFS, that's what Kirk always did best, give himself a chance to succeed, even when there seemed to be no chance for it.
I'd say that's an almost 100% certainty... and hopefully with the same "swagger" that we get from Shatner in TWOK.Starship Polaris said:
Who says they'll spend time showing the scheme?
Spock may first meet Kirk in a situation where we see Kirk beat the test - and is immediately caught for having reprogrammed it.
One might wonder what a tightassed Vulcan kid would immediately think of a cadet who did that.
Here's an Obvious Prediction: at some point in this movie, Young Kirk will explain his actions in some situation to Young Spock with the phrase, "I don't like to lose."
Nah, a good part of Kirk's "swagger" in that TWOK scene was because he was showing off for the girl - trying to get a leg over Saavik.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
Yes, probably the equivalent of grad school.
Seems gratuitious to me. We know what happens. The "how it happens" is tedious as there is no suspense as to the "what happens". It's NOT new information about Kirk, Spock or anyone else so it doesn't advance our understanding or appreciation for the characters and we know the characters so it doesn't provide insight as to what motivates them.
I think if such a scene DOES appear, it should be VERY brief and maybe for a somewhat comedic effect. Maybe it could be used to show Kirk developing a disdain for some of his superiors as he's brought up for a scolding and, for the first time ever, we see the man who WILL be Captain James T. Kirk thinking on his feet and in the "heat of battle" as it were, taking on a more skilled, better prepared opponent and winning when he manages to TALK his way out of a reprimand and get it turned into a commendation. That might make it work. I could almost SEE Shatner playing that scene. Someone else, it might be tough.
One certain thing, ten minutes of slinking around in corridors Mission Impossible style and reprogramming a computer = boring.
I think if such a scene DOES appear, it should be VERY brief and maybe for a somewhat comedic effect. Maybe it could be used to show Kirk developing a disdain for some of his superiors as he's brought up for a scolding and, for the first time ever, we see the man who WILL be Captain James T. Kirk thinking on his feet and in the "heat of battle" as it were, taking on a more skilled, better prepared opponent and winning when he manages to TALK his way out of a reprimand and get it turned into a commendation. That might make it work. I could almost SEE Shatner playing that scene. Someone else, it might be tough.
One certain thing, ten minutes of slinking around in corridors Mission Impossible style and reprogramming a computer = boring.
You know, that's kind of the point. And, I've done almost a 360 on the deal in my posts on this thread. It's not so much the KEWL factor of HOW he did it. It's about WHY he did it. If that's the focus, his motivation to rig the test, then I can see it.
I'd rather see the scene be yet another failed attempt at the test when a frustrated Kirk believes he did all things right and some crusty officer tells him, "Son, you know it's rigged so you can't win, don't you? That's life, sometimes."
Well, "F-that," Kirk thinks. And he rigs it so he has a chance to win. He makes it what he believes is a truly fair test. To him, a "no win" is not a fair test. In what were Spock's words, "There are always possibilities."
Again, the more I thought about it, I think it's important to remember he rigged it so he had the chance to win. He didn't rig it so he would win. He was still testing himself. Nothing was guaranteed.
If they don't focus on the KEWL factor of WHAT he did, like it was some kind of prank or egotistical show, but focus on WHY he did it -- the motivations -- then it could work.
Otherwise, it IS just a gratuitous valentine to all us old farts who not only remember TWOK, but can replay the KM scenes in our heads again and again.
Yeah, cause that's what I want to see, an episode of "Columbo" set in the 23rd century.
Seriously, is that the kind of film you want to see and expect that it would be of sufficient scope and spectacle to revive the "Star Trek" franchise?
If the Kobayshi Maru scenario appears, it's a fan-boy scoobie-snack. If it isn't and becomea a major plot element or, frighteningly enough, the point of the film, I predict "Star Trek" will stay dead for quite a while thereafter.
and, Yeah, I KNEW Anakin Skywalker was gonna turn out to be a bad guy. That's part of WHY the three "modern" Star Wars movies sucked to one extent or another.
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