Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[Relayer1]

There's really no reason to stop the Novelvers if they don't want to.

It depends who the 'they' you refer to is.

If it's Paramount/CBS I suppose they could give that instruction, albeit extremely unlikely.

If you're referring to S&S, their management, the editors or writers, no, they can't decide to carry on. I believe it's mandated that spin offs adhere to on screen continuity. Our resident writers and editors might be able to illuminate this.

 

[Greg Cox]

If you're referring to S&S, their management, the editors or writers, no, they can't decide to carry on. I believe it's mandated that spin offs adhere to on screen continuity. Our resident writers and editors might be able to illuminate this.

I'm not sure it's literally spelled out in the licensing agreement, but it's implied by the fact that CBS has total approval over all outlines, manuscripts, art, packaging, etc. Which, to be clear, is not unique to Trek. That's pretty much boilerplate for all such licensing agreements.

Believe it or not, book contracts don't tend to get into the content of the books. They're about deadlines, word counts, advances, royalties, pay schedules, sub-rights, etc. You know, the practical, real-world stuff.

As I've observed before, I've yet to see the word "canon" ever appear in any book contract or licensing agreement. That's a fannish obsession, not a legal term. But, yes, the general assumption is that tie-in books reflect the onscreen versions, not the other way around. I almost doesn't need to be spelled out in the paperwork. It just goes without saying.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

S&S are in business to make money for their shareholders. And I think they will think there is more money to be made from novels based on currently airing shows than shows that haven’t aired for 15+ years.

I will mourn the passing of the litverse but take comfort in the knowledge that we will still be getting new Trek novels from our favourite authors.

Absolutely this. Do I love the Litverse of the last twenty years? Absolutely. Do I want to see it continue? Of course. But the stories aren’t going to just vanish off my bookshelf with a flash of light like Q snapping his fingers. They’ll still exist. And the authors who wrote them will still be contributing new stories to the newly built furthering universe, and they’ve all displayed a masterful grasp of the franchise, where they are telling not just good Trek stories, but good stories period.

It’s sad to see something you love come to an end, but we’re entering a new era of Star Trek as well, exploring a different universe. I’m excited.

And just because the Litverse is going to be incompatible with the ongoing Trek, it doesn’t explicitly mean the end - the Rihannsu novels were revisited twenty years later, elements of the novels have creeped in to Discovery and probably will Picard (especially with Kirsten Beyer and David Mack being actively on hand to say “hey this thing in the novels could fit what you’re doing...”)... The ongoing narrative might no longer be built on and expanded, but elements can cross those boundaries.

It’d be nice if Seekers could survive the transition, since that was still fairly open ended when it left off, but that’s probably what I’d call the greatest casualty, unlikely to be revisited.

 

[Greg Cox]

elements of the novels have creeped in to Discovery and probably will Picard (especially with Kirsten Beyer and David Mack being actively on hand to say “hey this thing in the novels could fit what you’re doing...”)... The ongoing narrative might no longer be built on and expanded, but elements can cross those boundaries..

Hi there, Commander Una.

 

[JD]

It depends who the 'they' you refer to is.

If it's Paramount/CBS I suppose they could give that instruction, albeit extremely unlikely.

If you're referring to S&S, their management, the editors or writers, no, they can't decide to carry on. I believe it's mandated that spin offs adhere to on screen continuity. Our resident writers and editors might be able to illuminate this.

I'm not sure it's literally spelled out in the licensing agreement, but it's implied by the fact that CBS has total approval over all outlines, manuscripts, art, packaging, etc. Which, to be clear, is not unique to Trek. That's pretty much boilerplate for all such licensing agreements.

Believe it or not, book contracts don't tend to get into the content of the books. They're about deadlines, word counts, advances, royalties, pay schedules, sub-rights, etc. You know, the practical, real-world stuff.

As I've observed before, I've yet to see the word "canon" ever appear in any book contract or licensing agreement. That's a fannish obsession, not a legal term. But, yes, the general assumption is that tie-in books reflect the onscreen versions, not the other way around. I almost doesn't need to be spelled out in the paperwork. It just goes without saying.

Would just saying it's an alternate universe be enough to theoretically let it continue if they chose to? Technically it wouldn't be contradicting anything onscreen since it's been established in the shows and movies that there are alternate universes out there where events have played out differently.

 

[Thrawn]

Yeah but they won't though, because not enough people would buy it. Hell, the last couple of years even without the Picard announcement all the ongoing LitVerse series have been dropped except TNG. Not a coincidence.

 

[The Wormhole]

Why not just do a Litverse Alternate reality crossover that has the characters end up in the TV show reality, then end it with them back in the Litverse, and just continue it.

That way the Litverse is established as an alternate timeline officially and we can have both and not have to worry about the Litverse going away.

Thing is, we only seem to be getting eight Star Trek novels a year now, and soon there will be three live action series with tie-in novels eating into that line up. Let's assume each of those shows get two novels a year, takes up six novels leaving only two empty slots. Since TOS 5YM novels continue to be the best selling, that's the most likely to take up the empty slots. The only other alternatives I can see is only one being TOS, with the other being taken up by either a TV series era TNG novel, or a Kelvin timeline novel. There simply won't be room for Litverse in the annual line-up, meaning they won't be able to continue it as an alternate reality even if they wanted to.

I would just continue the lit verse and ignore the Picard show.

Except the reality of licensing agreement means they can't just ignore the onscreen material they're tied into. And besides, Picard is the most anticipated TV show of 2020. It makes no marketing sense to ignore that in favor of twenty year old novel exclusive continuity.

 

[thribs]

They could still do Picard books. There is even one coming. Thinking of getting it. Have no idea where to place on my shelf though. Probably at the very end.

 

[The Wormhole]

They could still do Picard books. There is even one coming. Thinking of getting it. Have no idea where to place on my shelf though. Probably at the very end.

Well of course they'll do Picard novels. Picard is one of the three TV series currently in production that a majority of the annual novel line-up is devoted to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Would just saying it's an alternate universe be enough to theoretically let it continue if they chose to? Technically it wouldn't be contradicting anything onscreen since it's been established in the shows and movies that there are alternate universes out there where events have played out differently

They already did, in the Star Trek Online novel The Needs of the Many. One of the DTI guys (I always mix them up) has temporal psychosis and "remembers" conflicting versions of history, one where Janeway died and there was a massive Borg invasion and another where Vulcan was destroyed a century prior.

And then it turned out Q was his nurse.

 

[Leto_II]

I quite liked the notion that Dahj had absolutely no idea who Data even was, or even that he was an android, when Picard mentions him (right before the attack in San Francisco) -- it reinforced the notion that, as much as he is instantly recognizable to us, the real-world Star Trek fans, in the fictional universe of the UFP he was simply just another Starfleet officer, albeit one who served with distinction aboard two different Enterprises.

And that there are probably thousands of other starships out there with equally-distinguished crews who don't often share the limelight with the "main" characters of whichever TV show or movie is going on at a given moment.

 

[Jedi Ben]

Short of playing the multiverse card, I can't see a way to continue the books as were now the first ep is done.

It would be good to have a concluding novel but at this point I've seen enough reboots to know the companies are just not willing to do that, it's a shame but, to quote a recent movie, it is what it is.

 

[Leto_II]

 

[E-DUB]

A trilogy to tie it all up would be nice.

 

[Damian]

There's all kinds of reasons the current litverse won't continue. One is the books generally have to be consistent with the on screen canon. Though it's interesting to read from Greg Cox that this isn't spelled out in any sort of contract per se. But outside a few specific exceptions we know books generally stick to what's on screen (and when what's on screen goes in a different directions the books almost always follow suit).

Two, as some have noted, S&S is in the market to make money. They're going to commission books for series that are currently on the air because that's what makes money. The only exception is the original series for obvious reasons. Sure there's a niche market for DS9, Enterprise and Voyager books. But I think it's safe to assume they'll make more money off a Picard novel than a Voyager novel.

And others are right my books aren't going anywhere. What's disappointing as I've noted before is they won't continue. I wish they could but they won't. Though at the very least I was really hoping the novels would get us to the destruction of Romulus in some sort of big epic finale tying up the 24th century, maybe like Destiny, that includes TNG, DS9 and Voyager.

"Collateral Damage" sort of tied up TNG. It ended in such a way that the adventure will continue but it ended on a positive note with the Enterprise back to doing its thing.

I'm hoping Kirsten Beyer concludes some of the major storylines hanging for "To Lose the Earth", assuming this will likely be the final Voyager book.

And as I've noted on another thread somewhere that just leaves DS9 without any sort of finale. It'd be nice if we got just one more DS9 book in the relaunch universe to do something similar. An opportunity to say good-bye to the series relaunch that pretty much started it all with the relaunches. I haven't seen DRG's name on any upcoming books, it'd be nice to find out he's working on one last DS9 book (since he seems to have been writing most of the recent DS9-based DS9 books).

Enterprise could conceivably continue as is, but I think that will fall prey to the marketing angle. Though it'd be nice if Christopher were able to continue that series (or I guess any author could if they so desired). That's one series that I've noticed at least around these parts to have gained a bit of a resurgence in interest. Not sure how significant that is but people seem to be re-evaluating that show and I know one or two people revisiting it now.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I can also see New Frontier picking up in the Picard era, and just never ever mentioning their Destiny tie-ins ever again.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I wouldn’t discount Voyager novels completely, considering Seven’s appearance in Picard - it wouldn’t surprise me to see a novel that explores Seven’s development in the time between Endgame and Picard, for example, and while the Picard name could certainly be used for it, since producers have said that they’re going with the idea that her appearance in Picard is the first time they’re properly encountering one another, I think that it would be easy to classify it with the Voyager name, since it would probably feature at least a few Voyager characters in various ways.

I’m still going to hold out a little hope that there can be some kind of wrap up - David Mack at least hinted that something was in the works, at least being discussed (weren’t his words along the lines of “there is a plan”?) and I won’t discount the idea that something - a single book, a trilogy, a mini series, something, will be due in, say, 2021, after To Lose The Earth comes out, allows for Voyager to be included, and is some great cross series finale for this branch of the Litverse before they reset the board completely for new tales. Hey, call me an optimist.

I mean, yes, S&S IS a business, is trying to make money off tying in to the onscreen media, but for twenty years, we’ve been on this ride with this iteration. It does strike me as something that has people involved in a decision-making level who understand and accept the concept of being kind to the fans who’ve kept this going, kept it profitable during the financial lows, and can at the least argue in favor of offering some kind of wrap up.

Again, call me an optimist, but I think it’s at least possible. Maybe not “stake money” levels, but... What is Star Trek if not full of possibilities?

 

[Krupp]

As I keep saying elsewhere, it would just be respectful to the fans who have kept this novelverse going and everyone involved paid by buying the books and following the stories to get some sort of a tie up before we move on to a new era of tie ins.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

As I keep saying elsewhere, it would just be respectful to the fans who have kept this novelverse going and everyone involved paid by buying the books and following the stories to get some sort of a tie up before we move on to a new era of tie ins.

To quote The Simpsons 'What? They've given you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? I mean, if anything, you owe them'

As someone who once worked in a field where random members of the public often said 'I pay your wages' as a bullying tactic, I honestly cannot stand people who think because they pay for something they have some entitlement and ownership over the people who produce said thing. 'Everyone involved' don't owe you a damn thing for choosing to buy their product.

 

[Krupp]

To quote The Simpsons 'What? They've given you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? I mean, if anything, you owe them'

As someone who once worked in a field where random members of the public often said 'I pay your wages' as a bullying tactic, I honestly cannot stand people who think because they pay for something they have some entitlement and ownership over the people who produce said thing. 'Everyone involved' don't owe you a damn thing for choosing to buy their product.

Couple of threads to pull on there.

Firstly, we’ve been paying the sticker price on the books for years. These books have been marketed and sold on the premise of having some continuity and development across them and I don’t think there’s major controversy in the idea that diligent fans deserve some closure to those arcs.

Secondly, in the world of Star Trek there is some history of diligent fans consuming the media and asking persistently for a continuation of or conclusion to that media. Star Trek literally wouldn’t be more than a 3 season ratings failure from the 1960s without fans who felt some ownership of the franchise. Everyone who has ever earned a paycheque from Star Trek since 1968 or so owes it to a dedicated fan base who watched and then actively clamoured for more. This has occurred with other franchises too and it is worth acknowledging.

Thirdly, nobody is suggesting however that the people involved are slaves to Star Trek or anything else. But looking after your dedicated hardcore fans is good business. Maybe in ten years Star Trek is back out of vogue and you’re dipping back into this well of (hopefully expanded) hardcore fans to keep the novelverse lit. Having those fans feel they can invest in long term arcs and get satisfying conclusions is probably a good idea. A wrap up book would likely sell well, yes be a fan service but also provide reassurance to fans that yes, this is how we do it, we look after you.

I know there’s strong and fair arguments that you take what you get from a franchise, I don’t particularly mind the canon arguments and so on. But I do think that when you’ve had a good, what 15 or 20 year run of relaunch novels it would be good business as well as showing respect to your fans to close it out.