Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[Jinn]

Actually a whole bunch of books and comics set between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens have been released since Disney reset it's canon. Along with a ton of stuff set in the original trilogy and prequel eras. They've been regularly releasing stuff in the new continuity since before TFA came out.

Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens? I looked at its wiki page and it looks like about seven out of seventeen publications listed there were actually post-VI (and I'm kinda cheating there too, as five of those seven are short stories about Jakku, so they could probably be either pre or post-VI)

I'm not knowledgable about the further novels though, were there any ongoing novel lines between Episodes VI and VII. Like, not a standalone book, but a genuine series, like the TNG or DS9 relaunch?

As much as I want this to happen, we need to recognize that there's very little chance of it happening.

Yep, this.

 

[Deano2099]

Sure, but CBS still might want to avoid confusion.

This is what I don't get, I think. Yes, having books that are set in a different continuity to the series would be confusing. But everyone here seems to agree, vehemently in many cases, that that's okay. Because I suggested the idea of existing books having to be pulled and everyone went "don't be stupid". So we all seem to think it's fine having those books out there for sale. As long as they were written before the show contradicted them.
We are also fine with new books coming out that contradict the show as long as they were commissioned before the show aired.

But we draw a line at books coming out that contradict things after the show came out. And yes, I know that's the way it has always been in the past. But things *are* different now. New books used to matter more as they were the ones front and centre in the book shop. Now everyone buys stuff on Amazon or elsewhere online and the latest book is indistinguishable from the book released five years ago, other than the publication date.

So sure, it's probably that the contract between Pocket and CBS is the same as before and they're not allowed to release new books that contradict on screen canon in any way. But it's also possible everyone used some common sense, agreed that they were their own thing, agreed that no-one really knew where Trek TV was going over the next five years, and agreed that as long as the books didn't actively break the broad strokes of the shows they could continue to operate. Maybe that was a bone thrown to Pocket in exchange for limiting them more on how they tie in to Discovery and other new shows (where it's much more problematic as you don't want a book out for a *new* series with a much higher profile that you then want to contradict on screen a year later - that's when it really gets confusing).

I do get that this isn't how things were done before but also I don't really see any benefit to CBS of placing such a severe restriction on the novels in the modern marketplace. I *could* see the benefit if they also asked for historical stuff that was contradictory to be removed from sale, but that won't/can't happen. Now it's perfectly possible CBS don't give a damn and no-one actually thought about it. But maybe in the long time it took to sort the agreement someone actually thought it through.

(As for Pocket being in too weak a position to negotiate like that, apparently CBS waited a year for Pocket to get their house in order rather than going straight to someone else, so clearly Pocket have some clout...)

 

[Tuskin38]

Aventine's Vesta-class design has also appeared in STO and in the Eaglemoss collection. The figures for Aventine and Titan also both had the same (equivalent) limited run, if memory serves.

The Vesta design isn’t owned by CBS though, they’d need to pay Mark Rademaker if they used it in show. I’m not sure what kind of deal STO made, but I remember the executive producer at the same saying it was a real pain to work out. I wonder what Eaglemoss had to do.

The Luna-Class design however is owned by CBS. The contest rules said the design would become property of CBS or something like that.

 

[F. King Daniel]

We live in a reimagined Trekverse where the Pike-era Prime Universe (*wink wink*) USS Enterprise NCC-1701 looks noticeably different to how it did in TOS proper. While I can see them using the basic shape of the Titan, I don't see them making it less than 25% different.

 

[Damian]

This is what I don't get, I think. Yes, having books that are set in a different continuity to the series would be confusing. But everyone here seems to agree, vehemently in many cases, that that's okay. Because I suggested the idea of existing books having to be pulled and everyone went "don't be stupid". So we all seem to think it's fine having those books out there for sale. As long as they were written before the show contradicted them.
We are also fine with new books coming out that contradict the show as long as they were commissioned before the show aired.

But we draw a line at books coming out that contradict things after the show came out. And yes, I know that's the way it has always been in the past. But things *are* different now. New books used to matter more as they were the ones front and centre in the book shop. Now everyone buys stuff on Amazon or elsewhere online and the latest book is indistinguishable from the book released five years ago, other than the publication date.

So sure, it's probably that the contract between Pocket and CBS is the same as before and they're not allowed to release new books that contradict on screen canon in any way. But it's also possible everyone used some common sense, agreed that they were their own thing, agreed that no-one really knew where Trek TV was going over the next five years, and agreed that as long as the books didn't actively break the broad strokes of the shows they could continue to operate. Maybe that was a bone thrown to Pocket in exchange for limiting them more on how they tie in to Discovery and other new shows (where it's much more problematic as you don't want a book out for a *new* series with a much higher profile that you then want to contradict on screen a year later - that's when it really gets confusing).

I do get that this isn't how things were done before but also I don't really see any benefit to CBS of placing such a severe restriction on the novels in the modern marketplace. I *could* see the benefit if they also asked for historical stuff that was contradictory to be removed from sale, but that won't/can't happen. Now it's perfectly possible CBS don't give a damn and no-one actually thought about it. But maybe in the long time it took to sort the agreement someone actually thought it through.

(As for Pocket being in too weak a position to negotiate like that, apparently CBS waited a year for Pocket to get their house in order rather than going straight to someone else, so clearly Pocket have some clout...)

I think the existing relaunch novels will continue at least until the nu-TNG show is in development. After that, well it all depends on the show. If they totally upend everything as some have suggested, making it impossible for the existing novel verse to exist in the same continuity, then the relaunches will end. On screen canon is sacrosanct to CBS (and previously Paramount). They won't pull older books, they'll still release them in E-book formats later if they were popular and so forth. But no new books will be released. Everything will shift to support the new shows.

On a rare occasion Pocketbooks have released a new book in an old continuity that was overwritten, like Diane Duane's Rihannsu novels. But even in that case, with "The Empty Chair" at least, I noticed she sort of 'met' them halfway in the sense that where it didn't contradict her story she did bring it more in line with on screen canon. But then that's just a single author with a couple books. I don't see that happening with the relaunches.

But I do think it's 50/50 since Kirsten Beyer is sort of the brains behind the nu-TNG show. She is an author active in the relaunches (granted Voyager is a few years behind the others in the timeline but her story is part of the same litverse). She seems to have a good relationship with the current authors and I don't think she's going to go out of her way to obliterate the lit-verse. If there is a way to make a good, quality show that doesn't interfere with the existing continuities she'll find it. I cited a few key elements, and really there are only a few if it's a show more concerned about it's own present and future and not so much about the past. For example Picard could now be an Ambassador who left Starfleet 5 years ago because he felt it was time for a new challenge and that's it. And they tell stories taking place in his current role. There's still a lot open and it does nothing to prior continuities.

 

[JoeZhang]

Beyer doesn't work in a vacuum - Chabon, the other writers, the studio and the actors will all have influence.

 

[chrinFinity]

The Vesta design isn’t owned by CBS though, they’d need to pay Mark Rademaker if they used it in show. I’m not sure what kind of deal STO made, but I remember the executive producer at the same saying it was a real pain to work out. I wonder what Eaglemoss had to do.

Seriously

You think if CBS goes to Rademaker and says "we want to canonize your ship design in the Picard show" and they make him a nominal offer, even a shitty one, that he's not going to say yes in a heartbeat?

 

[Tuskin38]

Seriously

You think if CBS goes to Rademaker and says "we want to canonize your ship design in the Picard show" and they make him a nominal offer, even a shitty one, that he's not going to say yes in a heartbeat?

I never indicated otherwise.

But I wouldn't be surprised if he said no.

 

[Damian]

I never indicated otherwise.

But I wouldn't be surprised if he said no.

I'm from the other end, I'd be surprised if CBS bothered to ask him. If they blow up the litverse it's a moot issue because there will be no Vesta class. And even if they don't, if they decide to maintain it, it's far from guaranteed they would even feature any Vesta class vessels. It simply may not be necessary to their story.

 

[JD]

I think Sean's Titan has a good shot at appearing on-screen. Stipulating that anything is going to look the same, ship-wise (which, as you say, is no longer a given), then I'd say that if only one thing were going to be pulled from non-canon-but-official Trek, it'd be the Titan design. It's not just a half-dozen book covers. It's an already-canonical ship with a known captain (so it's got that over the Aventine or the Sagittarius), the contest was decently well-publicized at the time, and the design has appeared in other tie-ins, like STO, one of those traveling science-museum tie-in exhibits, that Borg comic, and the Eaglemoss ships collection. It's always hard to guess what percolates into casual fandom, but I've gotten the impression that people who don't care about the novels but do care about ships know Sean's Titan as the Titan.

They did use the Vanguard station design as a replacement for one of the old models in one of the TOS Remastered edpisodes, so there is precedent for a novel design appearing onscreen.

Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens? I looked at its wiki page and it looks like about seven out of seventeen publications listed there were actually post-VI (and I'm kinda cheating there too, as five of those seven are short stories about Jakku, so they could probably be either pre or post-VI)

Journey to the Force Awakens was just a tiny part of the Star Wars books line, that only lasted for a short time leading up to TFA.

I'm not knowledgable about the further novels though, were there any ongoing novel lines between Episodes VI and VII. Like, not a standalone book, but a genuine series, like the TNG or DS9 relaunch?
.

Here are the lists of canon books, canon short stories and canon comics.

 

[The Wormhole]

So Pocket could sign up three years worth of litverse stuff right now and be fine then for the next three years?

They'd need CBS's approval before they signed anything. But theoretically speaking, yes, if CBS approved it, they could sign up three years worth of content and be relatively safe. I say relatively, because CBS still reserves the right to pull novels without explanation, like they did with the Kelvin Timeline novels back in 2010.

The presence of new Trek on screen massively changes what that license even is, and what it's worth.

It really doesn't. The license is to do Star Trek novels, and that remains the same even with new shows on screen.

If Pocket genuinely thought the line was going to be done when this new series hits, why bother?

Because Star Trek novels are still a source of profit for them? Keep in mind, the litverse continuity novels aren't even the best sellers, that's TOS 5YM novels, so as long as they can still do those, there's incentive for them. If they couldn't do those anymore, then they might decide to throw in the towel and call it a day. With novels related to a couple in-production TV shows, and their breadwinners the TOS novels, they may feel this is a satisfactory arrangement to make up for the loss of their 24th century continuity.

No-one person or even group seems to be "in charge" of these shows.

On the contrary, Alex Kurtzman from Bad Robot is in charge of both Disco and the Picard show.

 

[Jinn]

Here are the lists of canon books, canon short stories and canon comics.

Okay, so looking only at the novels because the comparison was about the Novelverse, we got the Aftermath trilogy, Last Shot (tie-in to Solo), Bloodline, The Legends of Luke Skywalker (which is about Legendss about... Luke), Phasma, Before the Awakening (anthology about Finn, Rey & Poe) and two thirds of the Join the Resistance trilogy. That's hardly the Novelverse.

 

[David cgc]

Aventine's Vesta-class design has also appeared in STO and in the Eaglemoss collection. The figures for Aventine and Titan also both had the same (equivalent) limited run, if memory serves.

Ah, but Titan was mentioned in a movie. Aventine is entirely a creature of tie-ins. A show restricting itself to on-screen material would have reason to show Riker's Titan, if only as a "valentine to the fans," but the Aventine is just another ship (even if it also has a model and video game).

 

[Tuskin38]

So 'Star Trek Destiny' was trademarked twice by CBS on August 3rd
One is filed under:

Digital media, namely, pre-recorded digital video discs, digital versatile discs, DVDs, downloadable audio and video recordings, and high definition digital discs featuring drama; Downloadable entertainment programs featuring drama provided via a video-on-demand service

The other:

Entertainment services, namely, a continuing multimedia series featuring drama rendered through the media of television, cable, satellite and broadband systems, and via the Internet, and portable and wireless communication devices; Providing ongoing non-downloadable entertainment multimedia programs featuring drama via a video-on-demand services; providing information in the field of entertainment rendered via the Internet, and portable and wireless communication devices

There is also Star Trek Reliant, which is filed only under the second one there.

 

[Avro Arrow]

So 'Star Trek Destiny' was trademarked twice by CBS on August 3rd

Wow, so the Picard show is not only going to be consistent with the novelverse, but they're actually adapting it from a novelverse trilogy. And here everyone was worried for nothing.



...... what??

 

[Jinn]

but they're actually adapting it from a novelverse trilogy

... Twice!

That being said, from all we've heard about The Picard Show I have a hard time believing it has anything to do with Destiny. Maybe it just borrows the name or they're planning to do sonmething different with Destiny. But probably not this show.

 

[DimesDan]

Wow, so the Picard show is not only going to be consistent with the novelverse, but they're actually adapting it from a novelverse trilogy. And here everyone was worried for nothing.

I find that extremely hard to believe, I suspect "Destiny" is in use, as it sounds reasonably cool for a mini series, or it could be a "video" game going by that wording.

 

[JoeZhang]

I suspect that Destiny is being used for a Discovery spin-off (D series) and that reliant will be one of the standalones.

(CBS has the international rights for standalones that it can sell while Discovery spinoffs sit with Netflix).

 

[David Weller]

Even if they are were to adapt the Destiny trilogy, either in whole or in part, it would still impact on the novelverse as it would move the events 20 years into the future.

And there’s also what else they would change that would have ramifications.

 

[Tuskin38]

I find that extremely hard to believe, I suspect "Destiny" is in use, as it sounds reasonably cool for a mini series, or it could be a "video" game going by that wording.

Video games have a separate trademark category.

I didn’t post this implying they were remaking Destiny, just as a possible show title.