Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[JonnyQuest037]

Again, that's not how the Nexus works. As I said, it let him relive his best memories, so his own mind chose what points in his life he experienced. (The novelization showed him experiencing alternate, happier versions of his times with Edith, Carol, etc.)

To be fair, the movie itself played it really fast & loose with how the Nexus worked. Kirk relived specific moments of his life, while Picard had an entire fantasy existence with a family he never had and where (IIRC) his nephew Rene was suddenly his son. It was impossible to exit, until suddenly Kirk & Picard were able to do so at will.

Basically, the Nexus did whatever the writers wanted it to in any given scene.

For instance, when Dennis O'Neill and Len Wein wrote episodes of Batman: The Animated Series adapting their '70s comics stories, they set them in the B:TAS continuity instead of the DC Comics continuity.

Dennis O'Neil. Just one L.

But that's not sharing a continuity, just one continuity borrowing a concept from another, like Batman comics incorporating Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya from The Animated Series even though the comics and the show were in distinct realities.

They also incorporated the villain Lock-Up and BTAS' version of Mr. Freeze's backstory.

Which makes it puzzling that there's so much effort by modern comic-book movies to stay consistent with their source comics and not offend the comics fans, given that the readership numbers of comics today are much smaller than they were before the direct market took over, and it's rare for a single comic issue to sell more than 10,000 copies. I figure it might be because comics fans are very active online and that makes them disproportionately influential in creating positive or negative buzz. Fans of prose tie-ins to a TV/movie franchise are not going to be anywhere near as prominent online.

I'd say that most modern comic book movies only try to stay broadly consistent with the comics, if for no other reason than to still surprise the people who are familiar with the original source material. For instance, the MCU version of the Scarlet Witch has slightly different powers than her comics counterpart, and was hugely affected by the death of her brother Quicksilver, who, the last time I looked, is a still-living Avenger of many years standing in the comics. Not to mention the whole variance of the mutant backstory, necessitated by the X-Men being licensed to a separate studio. But the big important things, like her being a misguided villain who becomes a hero and her romance with the Vision, are more or less the same. Or in another example, the Sam Raimi/Tobey Maguire version of Spider-Man didn't start fighting crime until after he graduated high school. He also never dated Betty Brant, even though she was his first girlfriend in the comics. And he didn't meet Gwen Stacy until long after he was dating Mary Jane Watson.

For me, it's much more important that they try get retain the essence of the characters than the exact trivia of the characters.

 

[Nyotarules]

People get out, people, no matter how long they stay in, don't get above say, commander, there a biologist, or linguist and have no interest in the commmand track. they'll never be admirals, ever. Troi or Crusher will never be admirals.

If one is an intergalatic organisation serving a population in the trillions there might be plenty of posts for admiral. The number of people working for Starfleet should be able to fill Australia.
RL Earth's population is over 7 billion, if you add up every nation's armed forces, air forces and naval forces how many Admirals/General etc are there?

 

[Christopher]

If one is an intergalatic organisation serving a population in the trillions there might be plenty of posts for admiral.

Starfleet is only interstellar, not intergalactic. It encompasses only a tiny fraction of this galaxy, and even its farthest-flung explorations in DS9 and VGR are just on the other side of this galaxy.

Besides, the point isn't about the total number, it's about the percentage of the whole. If there are 100 times as many admirals, there are also 100 times as many captains, and the ratio of admiral posts to captain posts is still going to be just as small. So the probability that any given captain -- let alone commander or lieutenant or ensign -- is going to get promoted to admiral someday is still quite low. It's not something every character is entitled to get; it would be quite rare.

 

[valkyrie013]

Also, not every character Wants to be an admiral! I mean, look at Picard, He's been a captain since Stargazer, so Almost 50 years in the hot seat.! And Kirk was wrong to accept promotion as well.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Based on US numbers, the "flag officers" are likely less than one percent of the entire cadre, with total numbers of active personnel between one-tenth and ten percent of total population (so for a conservative one trillion population, there are potentially one million to one-hundred million officers and enlisted and between a thousand and a million flag officers).

 

[Damian]

Besides, the point isn't about the total number, it's about the percentage of the whole. If there are 100 times as many admirals, there are also 100 times as many captains, and the ratio of admiral posts to captain posts is still going to be just as small. So the probability that any given captain -- let alone commander or lieutenant or ensign -- is going to get promoted to admiral someday is still quite low. It's not something every character is entitled to get; it would be quite rare.

I agree with you. I don't have a problem with Riker being admiral. It made sense in the novels when it occurred, and it would even make sense in the nu-TNG show if they decided to go that route and he was a guest on the show at some point. Riker had ambition. He stayed 1st officer on the Enterprise for a long time, yes, but I don't think that changes his drive to move up the chain. He was just wise to realize not to take a promotion until he was ready and learned everything he could from Captain Picard. And he served a long time on the flagship of the Federation.

But at the same time I would make him the only one of the crew, partly because of what you state, there's only so many slots. And some characters wouldn't really make sense. For instance, I think Geordi is happy doing what he's doing. And while at one time I might have envisioned Picard becoming an Admiral, I still remember Kirk warning him in Generations not to do it. And I get the sense Picard took that to heart. I think it would make sense that he decided to stay put. Sometimes taking a promotion is the wrong choice (as an aside, another reason I don't have a real problem with Dr Crusher staying on the ship in the novels--sometimes a promotion isn't going to make you happier; one should choose the life that makes them happiest).

And as for Riker, if Frakes guest stars in an episode (which I sincerely hope we get to see that at some point), I imagine it will be because Picard needs some kind of help from his old friend, and an admiral would be in a very good position to help (not that a captain wouldn't, but Admirals have a lot more pull where it's needed). BUT, he would be the only one I'd realistically see. It made sense in the novels, and I think it would make sense on screens, even if the circumstances differ.

 

[Damian]

And come on, it's Riker. He'd make a phenomenal Admiral. If Starfleet can't see that then they've got a problem

 

[Nyotarules]

Based on US numbers, the "flag officers" are likely less than one percent of the entire cadre, with total numbers of active personnel between one-tenth and ten percent of total population (so for a conservative one trillion population, there are potentially one million to one-hundred million officers and enlisted and between a thousand and a million flag officers).

Just read how difficult it is to be a flag officer in the US , assuming its the same everywhere watching Kirk in STB talk about applying for the post of Vice Admiral is even more ridiculous. Ok Star Trek is not about accuracy within the ranks but the suspension of disbelief in this regard for me was laughable. Might as well have a Star Trek Medical series where a precocious nursing assistant applies to be Head of surgery.

 

[Christopher]

Kurtzman says the following in Entertainment Weekly, in talking about the Picard show:

We really do spend a lot of time talking a lot about canon and there are people in the writers’ room specifically to tell us where we’re stepping on the line of violation. I did actually note at one point when I was asked about the graphic novels and comics that after 50-plus years it’s literally impossible to stay entirely consistent with canon because there have been very dry years in Star Trek and very full years and so many different writers have attempted to fill in the gaps in the dry years of what happened to beloved characters in the absence of a show driving those answers, they end up inventing things and we end up being faced with whether to call that canon. But it’s always a conversation.

I will agree with you, though, that the best version of the story needs to be the driver. But what’s the best version of a story is an entirely subjective thing. That’s why we have so many different voices in the writers room with so many different points of view. You want to write a nuanced story to get as many different voices as possible to represent how they feel about different ideas.

That suggests that ideas from the tie-ins have been brought up in the writers' room, but no one version is likely to be consistently favored in building the new canonical version of post-NEM continuity.

 

[Damian]

Kurtzman says the following in Entertainment Weekly, in talking about the Picard show:



That suggests that ideas from the tie-ins have been brought up in the writers' room, but no one version is likely to be consistently favored in building the new canonical version of post-NEM continuity.

Yeah, and in a way it makes a bit of sense. You have all these stories that have been built up over the years. Why not look at some of that and see if there are ideas you want to build off of, or just maybe some inspiration.

It might be something like we noted earlier, maybe they like the idea of Picard having a child and decide to incorporate that, maybe they decide it helps their show.

Or it might be something as simple as liking a character like Lt. Chen and they create a similar character.

Maybe they like the design of the Titan and use that in some way, if not the Titan itself maybe some other ship.

(I cite novel sources since that's what I know, but it could easily apply to a comic or game).

In any event, even if the litverse can't survive once the show starts, it'd be cool to see some little bit of novelverse make an appearance somewhere in some form. Maybe some little bit of litverse lore will live on.

 

[Damian]

On another point it is interesting to see how he interprets canon. I mean officially we know it's only on screen. But he seems to be open to the idea of at least considering tie-ins in some form, which would be a much different philosophy the prior regimes. In the past it was only on screen and they didn't give a hoot about what the tie-ins were doing except that they follow the canon. Little if any consideration was given to tie-ins as far as creating shows and movies (except the occasional nod from time to time).

In Kurtzman's case, while not embracing tie-ins, he's not ruling them out as potential sources of information to use. Esp. in his statement of whether they want to consider some of that canon. That's something rarely heard of in Star Trek circles.

Now, I wouldn't get my hopes up. As Christopher noted there's a lot of tie in fiction out there and there's no way to reconcile all that together, even if they were sadists and wanted to undertake such a project.

But nonetheless it will be interesting to watch the nu-TNG show to see if anything from the novels makes an appearance in some fashion.

 

[marlboro]

"But what’s the best version of a story is an entirely subjective thing."

I feel 100% confident that the guy who wrote "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" and "Cowboys & Aliens" will make the right choice when choosing the best story ideas.

 

[Christopher]

I feel 100% confident that the guy who wrote "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" and "Cowboys & Aliens" will make the right choice when choosing the best story ideas.

As I keep saying, the feature-film writing process is so convoluted that you can never assume the credited screenwriter is the primary person responsible for the content of the film. In features, the director makes the decisions and the job of the writers -- both the credited ones and the usually somewhat larger number of uncredited ones -- is to write what the director tells them to write.

In the case of that Transformers movie in particular, Michael Bay developed it during the 2008 writers' strike, so he came up with the action set pieces himself without any writers' involvement. Thus, when Kurtzman & Orci were brought in after the strike, the plot structure for the film was already determined and their job was simply to write bridging dialogue scenes between Bay's action scenes, which is why the film's plot is so incoherent. They had no power to shape the story of that movie; they were just hired to fill in the blanks in Bay's "story."

As for Cowboys & Aliens, Kurtzman was one of seven credited writers and a comparable number of producers. He, Orci, and Damon Lindelof wrote the final draft, but they didn't choose the story idea, since Mark Fergus & Hawk Ostby wrote the first draft and it was based on a comic.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, one of the Devs at Cryptic (Star Trek Online) said CBS and the Picard team asked them to send over all their story info as well. So they're looking at a bunch of different perspectives.

"But what’s the best version of a story is an entirely subjective thing."

I feel 100% confident that the guy who wrote "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" and "Cowboys & Aliens" will make the right choice when choosing the best story ideas.

He's not the only writer in the room, he's not even the head of the Picard Team AFAIK.

 

[Greg Cox]

As I keep saying, the feature-film writing process is so convoluted that you can never assume the credited screenwriter is the primary person responsible for the content of the film. In features, the director makes the decisions and the job of the writers -- both the credited ones and the usually somewhat larger number of uncredited ones -- is to write what the director tells them to write.
.

God, yes, I have seen movie scripts that had up to twelve or thirteen writers on them, with revised pages in every color of the rainbow, from various different generations of the script, and often only a couple of those names end up in the final credits.

 

[Christopher]

He's not the only writer in the room, he's not even the head of the Picard Team AFAIK.

In fact, Alex Kurtzman is the guy in charge (along with Heather Kadin) of the production company that makes the shows -- basically the equivalent position of Greg Berlanti on the Arrowverse shows or Shonda Rimes on Shondaland shows. That means that usually he participates in the creation of each series and the writing of the pilot, but usually then steps back and hands the show off to another showrunner under his supervision (he described it in a recent interview as "circling at 30,000 feet" or words to that effect -- he's on standby to consult and make decisions as needed). It's sort of like the showrunners are the captains and he's the admiral they report to. Discovery is an exception; since the show went through its second showrunner departure in as many seasons, Kurtzman decided to step in and run it personally to bring some stability rather than bring in an outsider.

 

[thribs]

I do hope they keep some stuff, like his kid and the Borg defeat. Frankly I’m sick of them.
Having Wesley come back from being a Traveler would be a change I wouldn’t mind. Never liked that thread.

 

[JD]

Yeah, and in a way it makes a bit of sense. You have all these stories that have been built up over the years. Why not look at some of that and see if there are ideas you want to build off of, or just maybe some inspiration.

It might be something like we noted earlier, maybe they like the idea of Picard having a child and decide to incorporate that, maybe they decide it helps their show.

Or it might be something as simple as liking a character like Lt. Chen and they create a similar character.

Maybe they like the design of the Titan and use that in some way, if not the Titan itself maybe some other ship.

(I cite novel sources since that's what I know, but it could easily apply to a comic or game).

In any event, even if the litverse can't survive once the show starts, it'd be cool to see some little bit of novelverse make an appearance somewhere in some form. Maybe some little bit of litverse lore will live on.

I have to admit, as much as I wished they would not contradict the books, I am honestly pretty shocked to hear that they did actually take a look at what the books have done.

Yeah, one of the Devs at Cryptic (Star Trek Online) said CBS and the Picard team asked them to send over all their story info as well. So they're looking at a bunch of different perspectives.

Nice to see them looking at multiple sources for ideas. It will be interesting to see if they actually take anything from the books or STO.

He's not the only writer in the room, he's not even the head of the Picard Team AFAIK.

I believe the showrunner is going to be Pulitzer Prize, Hugo, Sideways, Nebula, Harvey, and Eisner Award winning writer Micheal Chabon, who also co-wrote the Short Trek Calypso, which I have seen multiple people call the best Star Trek episode in decades.
As for Kurtzman, I think it would be better to look at his TV credits, which include shows like Xena: Warrior Princess, Alias, Fringe, Hawaii Five-0, and Sleepy Hollow. I've only seen a handful of Xena episode, but I'd put the four shows right up there as some of my all time favorites.

 

[Christopher]

I believe the showrunner is going to be Pulitzer Prize, Hugo, Sideways, Nebula, Harvey, and Eisner Award winning writer Micheal Chabon, who also co-wrote the Short Trek Calypso, which I have seen multiple people call the best Star Trek episode in decades.

No, all we know is that Chabon is on the staff. I don't think he has nearly enough TV credits to get a showrunner gig. It's unclear who is running the show.

 

[JD]

Oh, I could have sworn one of the reviews I read for Calypso talked about him being the Picard show's showrunner.