New Orleans-Class

[SicOne]

I've enjoyed reading through these discussions, but I have a question...how do we know a Galaxy-class was present and destroyed at Wolf 359? As far as I know, Admiral Hanson never left the Melbourne and died on it when it was destroyed, as depicted in the opening sequence of the DS9 pilot "Emissary". IIRC, Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet described Melbourne as a newbuild Excelsior meant as a command ship.

Regarding the OP of the purpose of the three bolt-on pods on the New Orleans-class, yep, I agree that they are auxiliary torpedo pods with their own substantial magazines. Whether they were mission-specific to that particular ship that fought at Wolf 359 or typical of the New Orleans-class itself is unknown. Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet suggests that the New Orleans-class was constructed without torpedo tubes, but as we've also seen the tubes used to launch probes, it seems unusual that such an obvious design flaw would make it out of the ASDB, even if the ship was designed in peaceful times. Plus, side-views of the N.O. suggest a torpedo tube in the base of the connecting dorsal a la Galaxy-class, with the same type of structure there that the Galaxy has. I can see additional bolt-on torpedo modules to bolster the offensive capability of this class during the Cardassian troubles of the 2350s, but I am inclined to think that this particular ship shown in the aftermath of Wolf 359 was a mission-specific torpedo spammer. Maybe not necessarily meant for the Borg; after all, the Borg weren't supposed to show up for some time, according to onscreen dialogue, but a ship meant to toss out tons of torpedoes on any threat that happened to show up in Earth's vicinity.

 

[Dukhat]

I've enjoyed reading through these discussions, but I have a question...how do we know a Galaxy-class was present and destroyed at Wolf 359? As far as I know, Admiral Hanson never left the Melbourne and died on it when it was destroyed, as depicted in the opening sequence of the DS9 pilot "Emissary". IIRC, Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet described Melbourne as a newbuild Excelsior meant as a command ship.

When did someone say a Galaxy was at Wolf 359? Did I miss something?

 

[SicOne]

^ Blip, in post #46.

"Apart from some Nebulas, I see no evidence of this thus far. Was an official list ever provided, including vessel classes and reg numbers? ETA: Apologies, I just did a quick check and it seems Adml Hanson's flagship was supposed to be a Galaxy, though it remains unnamed so far as I know. Having said that though, it is only one ship!"

 

[yenny]

I've enjoyed reading through these discussions, but I have a question...how do we know a Galaxy-class was present and destroyed at Wolf 359? As far as I know, Admiral Hanson never left the Melbourne and died on it when it was destroyed, as depicted in the opening sequence of the DS9 pilot "Emissary". IIRC, Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet described Melbourne as a newbuild Excelsior meant as a command ship.

Regarding the OP of the purpose of the three bolt-on pods on the New Orleans-class, yep, I agree that they are auxiliary torpedo pods with their own substantial magazines. Whether they were mission-specific to that particular ship that fought at Wolf 359 or typical of the New Orleans-class itself is unknown. Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet suggests that the New Orleans-class was constructed without torpedo tubes, but as we've also seen the tubes used to launch probes, it seems unusual that such an obvious design flaw would make it out of the ASDB, even if the ship was designed in peaceful times. Plus, side-views of the N.O. suggest a torpedo tube in the base of the connecting dorsal a la Galaxy-class, with the same type of structure there that the Galaxy has. I can see additional bolt-on torpedo modules to bolster the offensive capability of this class during the Cardassian troubles of the 2350s, but I am inclined to think that this particular ship shown in the aftermath of Wolf 359 was a mission-specific torpedo spammer. Maybe not necessarily meant for the Borg; after all, the Borg weren't supposed to show up for some time, according to onscreen dialogue, but a ship meant to toss out tons of torpedoes on any threat that happened to show up in Earth's vicinity.

If you run the tape on slow motion. At the end when Admiral Hansen message suddenly get cut off and before all communications is lost. You will see a Galaxy class starship battle bridge. That is why there is believe to be a Galaxy class starship at the battle of Wolf 359. I myself don't believe that Admiral Hansen flagship was a Galaxy Class or the USS. Melbourne. The bridge he was on, look like a bridge of a older class starship. Also the USS. Melbourne was destroyed at the beginning of the battle and the Galaxy class was still in operation when Admiral Hansen ship was destroy.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Yeah, Hanson's ship was supposed to use the same sets as the Enterprise in the initial script, though when he shows up on screen, it looks more like the set has a railing like an Excelsior class bridge.

 

[Dukhat]

If you run the tape on slow motion. At the end when Admiral Hansen message suddenly get cut off and before all communications is lost. You will see a Galaxy class starship battle bridge. That is why there is believe to be a Galaxy class starship at the battle of Wolf 359. I myself don't believe that Admiral Hansen flagship was a Galaxy Class or the USS. Melbourne. The bridge he was on, look like a bridge of a older class starship. Also the USS. Melbourne was destroyed at the beginning of the battle and the Galaxy class was still in operation when Admiral Hansen ship was destroy.

I'll have to do this tomorrow, but I don't recall ever seeing a Galaxy style battle bridge before. And anyway, is the Galaxy class the only ship with a battle bridge?

Yeah, Hanson's ship was supposed to use the same sets as the Enterprise in the initial script, though when he shows up on screen, it looks more like the set has a railing like an Excelsior class bridge.

It also had the TMP-style red-alert graphic.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Fortunately for those who require "explanations" for such things, there is a much more straightforward and sensible one than what you suggest, as none of those wall models is particularly accurate to the filming miniature of the ship it represents, and there would be no reason why it would need be, since it is a piece of decorative art, not a technical diagram.

I'd like to think that the straightforward and sensible rationalization approach is the one I communicated especially in the latest Part IV of my treatise.

And although I'll now be jumping (here) to an observation I will yet have to publish "there", please consider the signature down below of my avatar (Captain Picard quote).

The wall sculpture decorates his conference lounge and proudly displays the lineage and "ancestors" of his starship.

To suggest that the Enterprise-C - unlike the other Enterprise ships - is a "falsified" or inaccurate reproduction of the real thing would be totally inacceptable for a man who cherishes the truth above all other things, IMO.

@ Dukhat

We've seen the Enterprise-D's battle bridge in the pilot episode and BoBW. Are you referring to something differently?

Bob

 

[sojourner]

I'd like to think that the straightforward and sensible rationalization approach is the one I communicated especially in the latest Part IV of my treatise.

 

[Dukhat]

After watching the scene with Hanson again, one can hardly make out that the battle bridge set was even used for the scene. I see a railing, the TMP-style red alert graphic, and part of some piece of set dressing. Hanson himself and the red alert display take up most of the visual, so it is not any kind of proof whatsoever that his ship is a Galaxy.

Of course, since there's no definitive list of what ships were at the battle other than the ten or so we saw on screen, one cannot say for certain if a Galaxy was in the battle. But I personally prefer that there wasn't.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

If anything the scene with Hanson seems to prove it's NOT a Galaxy-class ship he's aboard, particularly since we clearly see the Battle Bridge set in the same episode and it looks nothing like the one Hanson is on. Either the director thought better of the script's intent, or something else happened, but either way the end result is that they're different bridge types.

It would seem to me to make more sense to assume he's actually on the Excelsior that brought him and Shelby to the Enterprise-D.

 

[yenny]

After watching the scene with Hanson again, one can hardly make out that the battle bridge set was even used for the scene. I see a railing, the TMP-style red alert graphic, and part of some piece of set dressing. Hanson himself and the red alert display take up most of the visual, so it is not any kind of proof whatsoever that his ship is a Galaxy.

Of course, since there's no definitive list of what ships were at the battle other than the ten or so we saw on screen, one cannot say for certain if a Galaxy was in the battle. But I personally prefer that there wasn't.

You cannot see the battle bridge playing the tape at normal speed. To see the battle bridge, you will have to play the tape in the slowest slow motion.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

On the ol' Flare forums someone once did a screencap enhancement of Hanson's bridge, and it pretty clearly showed that it was the E-D battle bridge set from the same episode. The only real difference was the display in the background, which showed the movie-era Red Alert animation instead of some spiffy CG twirls of the E-D stardrive section that we see later on when Riker and co. inhabit the set.

Mark

 

[Dukhat]

My point was that even if the bridge of Hanson's ship was an exact carbon copy of the Enterprise-D's battle bridge, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was on a Galaxy class ship.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/season-4/4x01/the-best-of-both-worlds-part-two-hd-192.jpg

Yeah, this angle seems to be the closest to Hanson on the Bridge, so it does look like the same set.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Agreed with Dukhat - it could be ANY bridge, really. Some think that it's the battle bridge of a Galaxy class ship simply because it's the same set, and that carries a certain amount fo logic to it (you wouldn't want an overbearing Admiral backseat driving your ship while also commanding a fleet). However it could easily be the main OR battle bridge of pretty much any starship. I think the battle bridge module on the E-D at the time could be the same as most any relatively recent starship (it's almost completely different than the set seen at in the first season of TNG, having been rebuilt since then from SOME of the movie Enterprise and the rest from the guest set that had been seen as the E-C the previous year, including the rear walls and CO chair) having been built to whatever standard they wanted to have for a Battle Bridge.

Mark

 

[Nob Akimoto]

We do know that a bunch of Federation starship bridges have a similar layout to the E-D battle bridge. Saratoga (The Emissary), Hathaway (Peak Performance), Prometheus (Second Sight) all used what was essentially the same set with a slightly different layout of MSDs and consoles. So basically the fact that Hanson's bridge DIDN'T have the same spinny graphics from the E-D's battle bridge might indicate it was a separate type of ship.

 

[SicOne]

I am inclined to think that (1) he was on the Melbourne and (2) per Tigger's "Ships of the Star Fleet" write-up, Melbourne was a dedicated command ship and Hanson was leading the fight from a command center in the ship (not necessarily Melbourne's bridge).

Do we know from DS9 "Emissary" screencaps if Melbourne was the Excelsior we see get a giant hunk taken out of its primary hull at the beginning of the battle? If so, is it possible that the big lurch we see Hanson's bridge get shaken by when he goes "The fight does not go well, Enterprise..." was caused by the blasting of Melbourne's primary hull? IIRC, Melbourne's wreckage continues towards the Borg cube after the hull gets chunked, which might suggest that contact with Hanson continued until Melbourne impacted the Borg cube's hull.

 

[Dukhat]

^Yes, the Excelsior seen in "Emissary" was the Melbourne. Also, one could retroactively state that this Melbourne was also the ship seen at the beginning of BoBW Part I, which brings Hanson to the Enterprise in the first place.

However, I kinda have a problem with the Melbourne being Hanson's flagship, mainly because I would think an admiral would want to be in charge of a more advanced ship if he's going into battle with an enemy as deadly as the Borg. In "Emissary" we see a Nebula, an Ambassador, an Excelsior and a Miranda. Which ship would you want to be flying in if you were in command? I'd take the Nebula.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Or, that Oberth we see later possibly coming to the aid of the Saratoga. Were I in charge of 39+ ships and 11,000+ lives, I'd hesitate in commanding from the front line. I"d just as happily choose a smaller, slower ship to lead fleet tactics, as long as it had the comm gear to be able to coordinate the fight.


Mark

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, Hansen's flagship being Galaxy-class comes from the novel Vendetta, which as others said likely comes from the re-use of the battle bridge set. I guess it'd have to be a Galaxy using the old movie-era OS, going by the red alert graphic.