I don't see why the appeal of root bear, political and religious tolerance, human bubbliness, among other things won't eventually encompass everybody-after all it's only inevitable.
New Federation worlds, poat Voyager?
- Thread starter Six of Twelve
- Start date
Depends, it was the seat of the central government, but that replaceable. And likely was the single most populace world, but for all we know there could have been far more Romulans living elsewhere in the Empire with only five percent or so of Romulans calling Romulas their home.
I doubt the fleet would have just sat in orbit as the blast wave approached.
Plus I don't (personally) think the prime universe Romulas was destroyed.
The Dominion is not really more advanced than the Federation in technology... sans maybe in trasporter technology, but even that wasn't anything special as we've seen that SF didn't use subspace beaming due to negative potential effects on biological tissue (all the while the technology was familiar for a long time, but not really pursued).
The only reason they were able to get through AQ shields in the first place was because they had infiltrated the AQ shortly after the Wormhole was discovered and travel between quadrants commenced... plus they captured several Federation starships that went missing in the Gamma Quadrant and likely learned whatever they wanted from captured Federation ships databases (which contains practically everything to give you an edge).
As for any military superiority... the Feds were able to keep up with the Dominion in ship production. The Dominion might have been portrayed though as using automation more in ship construction, but I thought that any level of manual labor for a collection of advanced civilizations was ridiculous - automation is far faster and more efficient.
As for Dominion's size... that's debatable. Weyoun described the Federation as 'vast'... that doesn't seem to imply the Dominion is bigger though. It can just as easily be smaller.
Keep in mind that the Federation progressed as much as it did due to different approaches: such as full scale cooperation, free exchange of ideas, technology and resources, no monetary economy to speak of (at least not on a larger level in the Federation), etc.
The Dominion on the other hand would encounter high levels of resistance due to use of force.
However, despite all that, I don't see the Dominion joining the Federation.
Their relationship with the Federation might develop along similar lines they had with the Klingons at first.. but with the Changelings realizing the Federation is not out to destroy them, and depending on how successful Odo is, there is a prospect for a potential alliance at the very least.
Joining the Federation... that depends if the Dominion undergoes massive social changes and whether they would want to join it eventually... it 'could' happen.
Doesn't need 100 years or more to do that... exposure to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving would take care of that within a few years - if it also includes alien species not jumping to ridiculous conclusions, and projecting bias onto everyone else (which makes me wonder how did some of those alien species ever survive the transition into a space-faring civilization? - Trek did some of the things right, but I think it is highly unrealistic that there are as many uneducated aliens for space-faring civilizations in Trek as we've seen - I know they are there to generate drama, but COME ON, that just borders right down with ridiculous - most of the hostile species we've seen in Trek, especially the Klingons strike me as the type of civilizations who would sooner destroy themselves first before they venture out into the galaxy - although I guess that the Hurgh invasion gave the klingons the necessary space faring technology... unless this united them temporarily and then they decided to revert for whatever reason back to more primitive ways... ).
It was. This was made clear in Trek XI.
I cringed when I rewatched All Good Things when Admiral Ross (I think) announced that Cardassia would retain all terrorities they held immediately prior to the Klingon invasion. They blatantly violated the treaty with Federation that led to the Maquis and the DMZ. I'd take those worlds they gave Cardassia back and more.
And start another war a few decades later? Learn from real life history Germany lost in WW1 and but started WW2. Humiliating your enemy defers the inevitable.
Klingon Empire - remains an ally, too different to join and why should they want to
Romulus - No way
Cardessia - probably, many decades years later. If the Federation treat them like a post war Japan/Germany then yes.
Ferengi - no way, they love their extreme capitalism
Bajor - definitely
Xindi - already members,
Personally the Federation getting bigger is a bad idea. They are the like the Borg, except they ask if you want to be assimilated before they do it.
Romulus - No way
Cardessia - probably, many decades years later. If the Federation treat them like a post war Japan/Germany then yes.
Ferengi - no way, they love their extreme capitalism
Bajor - definitely
Xindi - already members,
Personally the Federation getting bigger is a bad idea. They are the like the Borg, except they ask if you want to be assimilated before they do it.
Yes, Eddington, we know.
The Federation needs some good allies that aren't part of the Federation. The Klingons seem to fit the bill most of the time (in TNG+), but they can also become adversaries quite easily. I'm thinking something similar to the relations between the US & Canada, we're very friendly, but neither would want to join the other. And other than the aforementioned Klingons, I can't think of any other major power that currently fills that role.
I never understood the push of some alternate timelines projecting Klingons becoming hostile to the Federation in the future (late 24th century/early 25th).
It seems like a really stupid reversion considering what both the Feds and Klingons went through together, and now considering how much involvement the Enterprise did in stopping Shinzon, the Romulans might ease up a bit with the Federation too.
The destruction of Romulus might not really do anything to the 'empire' as such. Any main world in any of those powers suffering a catastrophe or being destroyed couldn't possibly cripple the entire collection of worlds.
The Federation is spread over 8000 ly's and has over 150 member species planets.
Destruction of Earth wouldn't cripple it at all... it would put a damper on things yes, but come on, any member world in the Federation or even colonies would have same levels of technology and ability for ship production, not to mention a whole slew of other things.
I also find it difficult to imagine that none of the major powers in the AQ would have contingency plans even if their capital worlds end up destroyed... in fact, it would be a necessity.
As for any other alien species joining the Federation... there are a number of worlds in the Gamma Quadrant for example the Federation helped.
And also Voyager helped plenty of other species such as the Talaxians. The Ocampa were friendly enough and now they also have an evolved Ocampa too (thank you Starfleet/Federation).
There were a number of other species Voyager helped... there was that species that was threatened with a Maqui missile.
The displaced Humans who evolved technologically (37's episode) and a whole bunch of others.
The immediate ones would likely be the Talaxians.
The asteroid is located mere 16 000 Ly's away from Federation space... at Slipstream V2 velocity, it would take them 16 mins to reach them.
Or, if you want to use slower Slipstream speeds (300 Ly's per hour), then 53.333 hours.
At Warp 9.9 (21 473 times speed of light)... under 9 months.
Warp 9.91, just over 4 months.
It seems like a really stupid reversion considering what both the Feds and Klingons went through together, and now considering how much involvement the Enterprise did in stopping Shinzon, the Romulans might ease up a bit with the Federation too.
The destruction of Romulus might not really do anything to the 'empire' as such. Any main world in any of those powers suffering a catastrophe or being destroyed couldn't possibly cripple the entire collection of worlds.
The Federation is spread over 8000 ly's and has over 150 member species planets.
Destruction of Earth wouldn't cripple it at all... it would put a damper on things yes, but come on, any member world in the Federation or even colonies would have same levels of technology and ability for ship production, not to mention a whole slew of other things.
I also find it difficult to imagine that none of the major powers in the AQ would have contingency plans even if their capital worlds end up destroyed... in fact, it would be a necessity.
As for any other alien species joining the Federation... there are a number of worlds in the Gamma Quadrant for example the Federation helped.
And also Voyager helped plenty of other species such as the Talaxians. The Ocampa were friendly enough and now they also have an evolved Ocampa too (thank you Starfleet/Federation).
There were a number of other species Voyager helped... there was that species that was threatened with a Maqui missile.
The displaced Humans who evolved technologically (37's episode) and a whole bunch of others.
The immediate ones would likely be the Talaxians.
The asteroid is located mere 16 000 Ly's away from Federation space... at Slipstream V2 velocity, it would take them 16 mins to reach them.
Or, if you want to use slower Slipstream speeds (300 Ly's per hour), then 53.333 hours.
At Warp 9.9 (21 473 times speed of light)... under 9 months.
Warp 9.91, just over 4 months.
What do you mean by "uneducated?"
The Versailles treaty was hardly Germany sole problem, they were finacially depleted by WWI, followed by excessive government social programs and then the international finacial crisis (great depression).
Following WWII, would you have let Germany keep Poland and Western Russia? Because that's essentually what the Admiral said Cardassia was going to be permitted to do. Hopefully the Federation Council would have reversed any decision he made in that direction.
The new Romulan government would naturally blame the Federation as being the original source of Shinzon's DNA.
YMMV.
Jumping to conclusions when accusing SF captains (or others) without proper evidence or the sensibility to study the data at hand and question it.
Then there's a whole slew of situations with alien captains acting way too irrationally and emotionally without 1 iota of critical thinking.
Come on, the average villain on Trek was portrayed as an uneducated moron (or a run of the mill 'average joe' right here on Earth - even those with 'higher education' who doesn't even use the whole slew of technology available to him/her when it comes to ascertaining what happened, least of all questioning anything.
Why does SF always have to be the one to bring sensibility to an argument?
These alien races figured out FTL and have very advanced technology, and yet, socially, they behave as if they are in the dark ages (mind you that's pretty much the same in current day and age - but surviving into the space age is an entirely different thing - such races would blow themselves faster than ending up in space).
Considering it was the Romulan government itself that infiltrated the Federation and stole Picard's DNA sample, grew Shinzon, forced accelerated growth on him, then abandoned the plan by sticking him in the Reman mines... their entire plan backfired on them.
Don't these people know that environment generates behavior? Simply assuming the boy would end up killed is stupid. Considering how the Romulans work, why didn't they terminate Shinzon when the plan was abandoned? The Romulans easily enough execute their own, and when it comes to failed covert operations, wouldn't you want to eliminate any and all traces of that project?
It would be ridiculous to blame the Federation since they had little to nothing to do with it... especially when the Federation cleaned up that mess for them and Donatra getting there with 2 ships to assist the Enterprise and considering the entire affair an 'internal matter'.
"Send him to the Reman mines" is probably the standard way of making inconvenant people go away.
This is not what the Admiral Ross did. The equivalent was Germany prior to annexing Austria in 1938. The end result of WWII was Germany losing even more territory than it lost in WWI. Germany lost East Prussia and much of Pomerania, Upper and Lower Silesia, and part of Brandenburg.
Cardassia was at its treaty borders prior to the Klingons invading the region. The Federation-Cardassia border would return to the state it was in 2370-71, before the Klingons decided to look for Founders in the Cardassian civilian government. Most of those planets in the DMZ were likely depopulated by the wars. Either by the Klingons or the Dominion. So while the border thought what was the DMZ might still be in place, there is likely no one living there anymore, and likely no rush to recolonize the region.
As for the Romulans, we known that post-Shinzon they were more open about relations with the Federation as Spock was able to operate openly as ambassador on Romulas, even tried to save the planet from a supernova-like event. Unfortunately Romulas was destroyed, and Spock assumed to be dead following his ending the supernova.
Last edited:
There were a number of species in Trek that were depicted in such a way that should have made them unsuited or incapable of becoming a technologically advanced space faring civilization.
The Klingons were just one example of a "dumb" species. The Klingons were culturally and psychologically backwards. They engaged in plenty of self destructive behavior.
The Tamarians from the episode "Darmok" is another example, but for different reasons. There is no way that a society that communicates in metaphors can ever become a technologically advanced space faring civilization. Neither species should have made it past their own atmosphere.
By the way, the Klingon culture and mind set seem to be incompatible with the ethos of the Federation. I don't see the Klingons changing their ways. It seems to be part of their dna. And why should they want to join the Feds? They are a big power in their own right with their own sphere of influence. Federation membership would probably mean an erosion of their cultural identity and imperial ambitions.
The captain from the episode "Symbiosis" seem to fit your description of an alien captain who acted irrationally and didn't seem to have a clue. He also might have been high.
I don't think a snob like Picard would offer the planet, where that alien captain came from, Federation membership. To Picard, that kind of society is just too dumb to be included in the Federation.
Why this if? Bajor has been abandoned by Cardassia a few years before the treaty was signed and the DMZ created. Cardassia was going back to its last peace-time borders when the majority of the conflicts with the Federation had been settled after the last war between the Federation and the Union. What borders it has outside of the Federation-Cardassian border are not up to the Federation. That would between Cardassia and whoever's territory that is.
Since Cardassia was fairly weak just prior to the Klingon invasion, I don't think there are any territories outside of the DMZ that would have been trying to leave the Union, and the DMZ is basically depopulated after the two wars, so their is no point in adjusting that border again as their is no one to benefit from the changes, only stir up something unnecessarily.
And yet they were, apparent the technological equals of Starfleet.
Yet their Empire is older than the Federation, and in the 24th century is in technological parity with the Federation, in a few areas more advanced. Admiral Janeway used a Klingon time and position device to return to Voyager in Endgame.
Despite their violence and occasional civil wars, the Klingons would appear to have a stable and functional society.
Similar threads
