New Enterprise May Have Nacelles That...

[Cary L. Brown]

STARTREK11 said:

said:


I SAID:-

You comments about aircraft having folded wings makes no sense as all they had to do is do is park every ALTERNATE aircraft on a ramp such that the wings stack/slide over each
each adjacent plane's wings.Using this method you would get higher aircraft density,then with folding wings.
This must be military intelligence in action having planes with folding wings.Totally unnecessary.

CULTCROSS SAID:-

"The folding wings are a much more sensible solution than stacking them on a ramp over each other ( ) and I think you know that. It would only take the ship to move slightly on choppy seas and planes stacked wing over wing would be causing damage to each other. Plus the folding wings make manoeuvring on hanger deck lifts easier. They wouldn't have come up with the idea if fixed wing planes could do the same thing - they already had fixed wing planes".

...SAYS CULTCROSS ABOVE.


To which I Reply.








But in your previous post you said folding wings add weight and complexity,now you say it's better to have them.

The choppy seas argument is absurd as all the planes would be effected equally,just because they are a few feet of the deck on a ramp would not effect them any more.In any case they usually anchor them if that was the case.A carrier by necessity has to be a stable platform.

And the planes would not damage each other by scraping as adequate ramp height clearance would ensure that.



I expect confirmation any moment from my source about the plot point mentioned above.

Stay tuned.

Pal, you REALLY need to start paying attention to who you're talking to. You've replied to others as though they were me, and to me as though I'm someone else. NOT true.

Folding wings adds complexity. It reduces onboard fuel capacity. And in the VERY FIRST aircraft carriers, they didn't have them.

The first carrier-based aircraft with folding wings gave the carriers the ability to carry many more aircraft on the same ship. Each aircraft was slightly less capable than their land-based variant would be, but the overall effect was to dramatically increase the capacity of the CARRIER. The net change was gain, in other words.

It's also worth pointing out that, despite you apparently not "getting" it, that the wings in flight ARE TOTALLY STABLE AND FIXED. THEY ARE LOCKED INTO PLACE. THEY ARE NOT "BENDY HINGY FLAPPY" THINGS!

I know, you're either (1) tweaking us to see how far you can push the group, or (2) simply totally clueless, yet came up with something you thought would be "kewl" and now are offended that we don't seem to like your kewl new idea. But replying can be entertaining. I keep hoping that you'll eventually "click" and start GETTING what you're being told. There are a lot of folks here who know a LOT about what we're talking about. I'm not the only one, not by a long shot. You have yet to explain who you are or what you do or what your level of education, knowledge and training is, on the topics you claim to be able to discuss intelligently.

Oh, and you also haven't tossed us that "major plot point spoiler" yet. We're all still waiting on that one, too.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

STARTREK11 said:They don't spin like propellers.They rotate to change the angle of thrust and change the direction of the ship rapidly and braking.

Just to make this clear, ONE MORE TIME... the warp nacelles are not rockets. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THRUST.

And even if they WERE rockets... vectoring rockets exist today. They vector the NOZZLES, not the BODIES.

I could do a free-body-diagram showing how senseless this is, but honestly, I just don't get the impression that (1) anyone but ST11 needs to be convinced, and (2) that anything I could say would sink in for ST11 anyway.

You're either full of it or you're too emotionally-invested in your own misconception to even consider that you might be MISTAKEN or MISINFORMED.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I'm pretty sure that STARTREK11's age is in his screen name, Cary... why do you even bother to reply?

 

[STARTREK11]

Sorry about the wrong post to the wrong poster.

Bu you failed to mention my stacking idea as above does away with any need for folding wings.

I am very educated and believe in not going with established practice so that new avenues of thought can be discovered.

All progress was made by breaking the mold of conventional thought.

The plot point will come very soon,awaiting confirmation.

 

[STARTREK11]

In this new film previous rules are being amended as it is based before advances came along.Nozzles can vector up to +/-30 degrees,but not more than that.To get around that you rotate the nacelle.Hope this helps you.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

STARTREK11 said:
I am very educated and believe in not going with established practice so that new avenues of thought can be discovered.

This explains much.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

STARTREK11 said:In this new film previous rules are being amended as it is based before advances came along.Nozzles can vector up to +/-30 degrees,but not more than that.To get around that you rotate the nacelle.Hope this helps you.

Why yes, it does. I suddenly feel so enlightened!

Why, how did mankind learn to fly, learn to build space vessels, naval vessels, machinery of EVERY KIND, without your amazing insights? We've been stumbling in the DARK AGES until now.

Just imagine, within a decade we'll be flying from solar system to solar system in just seconds using ROCKET ENGINES! WOW! GOLLY GEE!

Seriously, those of us who do science and technology for a living all bow down now, en-masse, and worship your greater insight.

You need to head over to Lockheed and present your ideas to them now. It'll REVOLUTIONIZE ALL TRAVEL!

(SARCASM MODE: OFF)

You obviously are unwilling or unable to recognize your abject lack of comprehension of what you're discussing. So, with this final "venting" I think I'm done talking to you. Other than being good for a laugh (at your expense) it's not really worth it. And I'm not the sort who really takes all that much pleasure at laughing at others.

I've tried to explain things to you, but Nooooooo... you know better than the entire rest of humanity. You, on your own, have somehow concluded that the way things ACTUALLY WORK IN REAL LIFE is "wrong" and your personal (and utterly laughable) "recommendation" is how things OUGHT TO BE. As if every one of the tens of thousands of people who've worked on those issues, over the years, have ALL been stupid and you're finally here to save the day.

Here's a hint. Things generally work the way that they do because that's the best way we've come up with doing it so far, not based upon one person's opinion but based upon MANY PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCE and upon reams upon reams of ANALYSIS and REAL WORK APPLICATION.

You have none of the above. Yet you seem, nevertheless, to think that you know better than all the rest.

Go play in your sandbox. I'm bored with you and your lack of basic comprehension.

"Advanced education" indeed...

 

[cultcross]

STARTREK11 said:
I am very educated and believe in not going with established practice so that new avenues of thought can be discovered.

All progress was made by breaking the mold of conventional thought.

Why don't you get to work on a perpetual motion machine - after all, we'll never make progress as long as we're slaves to the laws of thermodynamics!!

Also, btw, this post bascially admits that you made the whole thing up.

 

[seigezunt]

STARTREK11 said:

All progress was made by breaking the mold of conventional thought.

The plot point will come very soon,awaiting confirmation.

I am reminded of the following exchange:

SPOCK: Forgive me Doctor. I'm receiving a number of distress calls.

MCCOY: I don't doubt it!

 

[Jack Bauer]

Word has it that the warp core is really powered by hamsters running on a wheel.

 

[STARTREK11]

cultcross said:

STARTREK11 said:
I am very educated and believe in not going with establishedpractice so that new avenues of thought can be discovered.

All progress was made by breaking the mold of conventional thought.

Why don't you get to work on a perpetual motion machine - after all, we'll never make progress as long as we're slaves to the laws of thermodynamics!!

Perpetual motion machines exist,they are called Solar Systems.




Now I finally present to you the plot point which you all have been waiting for.

I have rewritten it to protect the innocent.

Excuse the spelling errors as i did this as soon as i got confirmation,in a hurry.







WARNING! WARNING...

MAJOR SPOILER AHEAD...

CLOSE YOUR EYES OR AVERT YOUR GAZE.I CANNOT USE SPoiLER COdE AS IT DOES NOT ALLOW PASTING IN THE BOX IF THERE IS A PERIOD IN THE TEXT...IT WILL ONLY ALLOW PASTING UP TO THE PERIOD IN THE TEXT...

SO GO BACK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THIS SURPRISE.


spoiler ahead.




In the dark cold of space littered among the smouldering debris of the battle hangs the Enterprise at an angle,it's hull mottled from the damage it has suffered at the hands of the enemey.

In the battle ,the Enterprise has destroyed two of the three enemy vessals which had ambushed it.... drift ablaze through space .....lighting it up as a fire lights up a shadow..

The last surviving enemy vessal birdlike,sinister and dark cruises closer and closer to the wounded Enteprise...
On the bridge strides Captain Kirk,His face resolute and,thoughful as he paces back and forth.

Report Mr Scott!

Captain that last hit took out the warp engines and the phasers..the photon fire control will take an hour to fix...

WE DONT HAVE AN HOUR MR SCOTT!.


uhuru:- captain
The enemy vessals is hailing us...
report !


uhuru:-
they are saying

"surrender and prepare to be boarded...."

What about the enemy vessal Mr Spock?

Captain they have suffered considerable damage but they are in a better position.They have warp drive and weapons,shields...that last shot took out the main power conduits... we only have impulse power,no weapions...no shields..We cannot escape them.Sir.

Dammit Spock! We cannot let ourselve be captured..

What is their position,Mr Sulu.

They have moved alongside the enterprise on a parallel course sir.Their shields have gone down ,we can expect to be boarded any moment.


Their shields are down Mr Spock?

Yes! Sir but as we are unable take advantage without weapons being online....

The ship shudders as if being hit!

Scotty:-

Captain the devils have locked a tractor beam on us..!....we will be unable to escape on impulse drive.

Captain Kirk.. Confound it!


Spock:- they are holding us firm.

....we cannot break free and we certainly cannot escape without warpdrive...

without weapons we must face the inevitable as prisoners of war...

Captain Kirk...his face grim his... jaw clenched, he wipes the sweat from his brow with the back of his sleeve.....as he surveys the smouldering phaser bank control panel...


Not just yet Mr Spock...

can we fire a photon torpedo manuelly? mr scott?

well yes captain but only if they were ahead of us ... direct line of sight...we could get a lock on then..an even then it it will be a hit and miss affair...but they are PARRALLEL TO US CAPTAIN
and locked in their tractor beam...

and phasers are?

mr scotty.


still ...offline captain...

Captan Kirk.....if we only had phasers with their shields down they are vulnerable....


UHURA THEY ARE HAILING US AGAIN?

Mr Spock they are charging weapons ....Should I signal our surrender?

captain kirk not quite yet mr spock...

WAIT!... maybe we dont need phasers.....

i have an idea!...quick mr Sulu rotate both nacelles 80 degrees starboard...

mr sulu sir even if we break free we cannot escape without warpdrive and shields....


DO IT MR SULU...

mr scott divert all power to the impulse engines ...I WANT 120 % overload on the impulse engines ..do you understand?

MR SCOTT............ yes captain BUT CAPTAIN...IT CAN DAMAGE ...

NOOOWWW MR SCOTT !!!! THAT IS AN ORDER....!!!

SULU:-

YES SIR ! ROTATING BOTH NACELLES 80 DEGRESS STARBOARD....

SULU:- NACELLES LOCKED AT 80 DEGREES...

NOW!........ FULL IMPULSE MR SULU...NOOOOWWWWW!!

FULL IMPULSE SIR...!!!!!!!!!!!!1


mr spock.:-


Captain we are not breaking free..

captain kirk...

I DONT WANT TO BREAK FREE MR SPOCK....!!!


in the cold dark of Space the Enterprises nacelles firing at full impulse in the direction of the enemy vessal at close proximity heat it's hull to an an incandescent white hot within a few seconds as the full plasma beam cuts through it like a KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER....
on board the beam belts,cuts through vital systems..screams are heard...explosions rock theenemy vessal...

Mr spock:-

THE IMPULSE EXHAUST IS impacting the enemy vessal ...the temperature has gone up to 3000 degrees kelvins and rising rapidly...their hull is disintegrating from the heat and force of the impulse beam.

kirk..
i sure hope so...

mr spock,,,arched eyebrow...:- ingenious strategem captain....

kirk. it's called snatching victory from the jaws of death.....


spock :- the enemy vessals reactor core has been breached ...

scotty the enemy's tractor beam has gone..!

kirk :-

maintan maximum impulse mr sulu...we dont want to be here

we dont want to be caught in the explosion....

aye sir....;

suddenly as the tractor beam collapses the Enteprise leaps sideways away from the enemy vessal which is disintegrating from the super white hot plasma emitted by the impulse engine vents in the nacelles....

as the Enterprise speeds away a massive explosion lights up space as the enemy vessal's reactors confinement fails....and a impact wave buffets the Enterprise..ON BOARD THE BRIDGE everyone is thrown forwards as the wave hits...

mrspock incoming!!

brace yurselves...

the ship judders and lurches as the recedng explosion catches upwith it...


a few seconds later
kirk:-
damage report mr scott?

well the shuttle bay and the starboard nacelle caught the brunt of it ....has suffered major damage but we can have it repaired at a starbase one warp power is restored...some radiation burns to the crew...Dr Mccoy is attending ...


thank you mr scott..



mr spock..:- ingenious ....captain...

captain :- desperation .... mr spock...


.. <font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> </pre><hr />

 

[EyalM]

Ummm... you do know that the nacelles house the warp drive, not the impulse drive, do you?

And if the impulse drive emits a plasma beam, how come we never saw it?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

EyalM said:
And if the impulse drive emits a plasma beam, how come we never saw it?

The unaided human eye is sensitive to only a very narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum. Whatever photons are emitted by an impulse exhaust would very likely be of a much higher energy/shorter wavelength than what we are capable of seeing.

TGT

 

[EyalM]

The God Thing said:

EyalM said:
And if the impulse drive emits a plasma beam, how come we never saw it?

The unaided human eye is sensitive to only a very narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum. Whatever photons are emitted by an impulse exhaust would very likely be of a much higher energy/shorter wavelength than what we can see.

TGT

But STARTREK11 clearly stated that the impulse exhaust is plasma and is 3000K hot. That alone should blind anyone looking at the Enterprise without protective eye ware.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

EyalM said:
But STARTREK11 clearly stated that the impulse exhaust is plasma and is 3000K hot. That alone should blind anyone looking at the Enterprise without protective eye ware.

That is a remarkably low temperature for what is supposedly the product of nuclear reaction (for example, the Ariane 5's cryogenic Vulcain LOX/LH2 engine exhaust reaches 3250C/3523.15K). Serves me right for posting in a STARTREK11 thread.

TGT

 

[STARTREK11]

EyalM said:

The God Thing said:

EyalM said:
And if the impulse drive emits a plasma beam, how come we never saw it?

The unaided human eye is sensitive to only a very narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum. Whatever photons are emitted by an impulse exhaust would very likely be of a much higher energy/shorter wavelength than what we can see.

TGT

But STARTREK11 clearly stated that the impulse exhaust is plasma and is 3000K hot. That alone should blind anyone looking at the Enterprise without protective eye ware.

no no no

the impulse exhaust is at a much higher temp but when it struck the enemy vessel the hull temp was 3000 k and rising...as energy accumalates

you cannot see plasma in space unless it interacts with something....

 

[EyalM]

STARTREK11 said:


you cannot see plasma in space unless it interacts with something....

WRONG!
You're thinking about light beams. Plasma is ionized gas, and as such emits light in all directions.
Now that I think about it, since it's gas, the plasma "coming out of the nacelles" will expand in all directions so it can't hit the enemy vessel like a beam at all (its temperature will also drop dramatically as it expands, btw).

 

[Cary L. Brown]

EyalM said:

STARTREK11 said:


you cannot see plasma in space unless it interacts with something....

WRONG!
You're thinking about light beams. Plasma is ionized gas, and as such emits light in all directions.
Now that I think about it, since it's gas, the plasma "coming out of the nacelles" will expand in all directions so it can't hit the enemy vessel like a beam at all (its temperature will also drop dramatically as it expands, btw).

Wow... this is cool... I can sit back and watch OTHER people attempt to reason with the unreasoning... should be entertaining, yet I can avoid that ledge I was being dragged towards where I'd end up getting warned for flaming.

 

[STARTREK11]

EyalM said:

STARTREK11 said:


you cannot see plasma in space unless it interacts with something....

WRONG!
You're thinking about light beams. Plasma is ionized gas, and as such emits light in all directions.
Now that I think about it, since it's gas, the plasma "coming out of the nacelles" will expand in all directions so it can't hit the enemy vessel like a beam at all (its temperature will also drop dramatically as it expands, btw).

Explain why in some plasma welding the beam is almost invisable until yu start cutting?

So you are saying a high energy proton travelling at 200 km/sec beam will be cold even a just a few feet away from the vessal?

why does nasa make people stand a mile away from the nozzle in launches if the gas cools that quickly?


why is the cooling water tank underneath turning to steam?


please google plasma welding.


in any case it was the high energy plasm's IMPACT on the enemy hull which generated rapid heating to 3000 kelvins...


I would never ask you to put your hand in front of a plasma beam.

 

[STARTREK11]

EyalM said:

STARTREK11 said:


you cannot see plasma in space unless it interacts with something....

WRONG!
You're thinking about light beams. Plasma is ionized gas, and as such emits light in all directions.
Now that I think about it, since it's gas, the plasma "coming out of the nacelles" will expand in all directions so it can't hit the enemy vessel like a beam at all (its temperature will also drop dramatically as it expands, btw).

emits light?

emits radiation which is invisiable to the human eye...like infrared or ultraviolet....